A Taste of Skizz #15

The discussion here reminded me that I never said anything publicly about our involvement in The South Pacific (TSP) during my presidency. At the time, I kept quiet because I felt the details might harm our diplomatic relations. If that was ever true, I'm convinced it no longer is. Therefore, I'm going to tell the story.

This is not a definitive history, but an account of events from my perspective. Others are invited to correct or supplement my account. I only care about the TSP affair insofar as it affected Europeia, so don't expect a fulsome account of the affair and its NS-wide implications.

Here goes:

Well-known defender Sedge, from The Rejected Realms (TRR), led an effort to overthrow the delegate in TSP. He was joined by Unknown, TNI and LKE. It was a massive operation, so I presume he had other allies too. The Founderless Regions Alliance (FRA), under the leadership of Unibot (who was FRA Arch-Chancellor at the time), came to the aid of the incumbent government of TSP.

I wasn't part of the initial deliberations, but I can see how the decision might have been difficult. On one hand, we would normally side with our raider allies, and against the FRA. On the other, we enjoyed friendly relations with TSP (more so than with the other feeders), and HEM was involved in the government of TSP at the time. For whatever reason, we sided with the native government of TSP.

While the TSP affair was ongoing, Earth resigned. HEM, Ollie and Griff resigned their posts here more or less contemporaneously with Earth. (Griff had been GA.) Plenty has been written on these forums about those events.

As Vice President, I assumed the presidency upon Earth's resignation. Even before my GA was confirmed, one of the admirals (not sure which one) asked privately if I wanted to continue to support TSP against the raiders, who by this point had assumed the delegacy. Motivated by a desire to repair relations with HEM, I said we should continue. After that, I mostly ignored the issue. A few days later, the raid fell apart and TSP's native delegate was restored.

Somewhere in there, I was advised by someone (not sure who) that our involvement in TSP might have violated our treaty obligations. Therefore, I took pains not to disclose our involvement. Later, I reviewed the treaties myself and concluded I had been advised wrongly, but even so, I decided the matter was sensitive enough that I shouldn't discuss it publicly. I did respond privately to a couple citizens who asked questions about our involvement.

I could say more about the fallout across the NS world from the TSP affair, but I'll leave that to someone who follows those things closely. Europeia's involvement in TSP was very minor; ironically, my (possibly misguided) efforts to keep our involvement quiet may have caused some people to believe we were more involved than we were. From Europeia's standpoint, TSP was little more than a garden-variety reinforcement operation. I'm surprised it's still a topic of interest -- and after this boring account, perhaps it won't be anymore.
 
And only one reply later-- still applicable.
Let me break it down into simpler terms that you, our wonderful Senate Speaker.
Honestly, Henry don't even bother.

I'd rather be immolated like Anakin Skywalker than read your posts.
And you're supposed to be the Senate Speaker. I am duly impressed, sir. How are you supposed to do your job efficiently if you won't read things that may be applicable to your term? How are you supposed to be able to give unbiased decisions in the Senate when you're so quick to judge outside of it? How are you going to lead the Senate down a correct path when just about every post I see out of you is not what should be said by the Senate Speaker?

I think I will be petitioning for your removal as Senate Speaker. Not from the Senate, just as Senate Speaker. There has to be someone better suited to lead the Senate right now.

Sopo's name comes to mind.
It's also a Senate Speaker's job to not waste time with useless, pointless bullcrap. :)
 
And only one reply later-- still applicable.
Let me break it down into simpler terms that you, our wonderful Senate Speaker.
Honestly, Henry don't even bother.

I'd rather be immolated like Anakin Skywalker than read your posts.
And you're supposed to be the Senate Speaker. I am duly impressed, sir. How are you supposed to do your job efficiently if you won't read things that may be applicable to your term? How are you supposed to be able to give unbiased decisions in the Senate when you're so quick to judge outside of it? How are you going to lead the Senate down a correct path when just about every post I see out of you is not what should be said by the Senate Speaker?

I think I will be petitioning for your removal as Senate Speaker. Not from the Senate, just as Senate Speaker. There has to be someone better suited to lead the Senate right now.

Sopo's name comes to mind.
It's also a Senate Speaker's job to not waste time with useless, pointless bullcrap. :)
Thank you for your opinion, Ty. I don't believe I would have slept a wink tonight without it.
 
Are we really still talking about all of this? Lets move on from all of this, because living in the past isn't good for anyone.
 
Are we really still talking about all of this? Lets move on from all of this, because living in the past isn't good for anyone.
Most sensible thing said in this thread. I'll be making a post in The Henry Times pretty soon. It will probably be long but I do urge people to read every word. It's not going to be anything bad.
 
And only one reply later-- still applicable.
Let me break it down into simpler terms that you, our wonderful Senate Speaker.
Honestly, Henry don't even bother.

I'd rather be immolated like Anakin Skywalker than read your posts.
And you're supposed to be the Senate Speaker. I am duly impressed, sir. How are you supposed to do your job efficiently if you won't read things that may be applicable to your term? How are you supposed to be able to give unbiased decisions in the Senate when you're so quick to judge outside of it? How are you going to lead the Senate down a correct path when just about every post I see out of you is not what should be said by the Senate Speaker?

I think I will be petitioning for your removal as Senate Speaker. Not from the Senate, just as Senate Speaker. There has to be someone better suited to lead the Senate right now.

Sopo's name comes to mind.
It's also a Senate Speaker's job to not waste time with useless, pointless bullcrap. :)
Thank you for your opinion, Ty. I don't believe I would have slept a wink tonight without it.
You're welcome. ^_^
 
Henry, do you recall how in the past I've chided you for not paying your reader the courtesy of proofreading? This thread illustrates that, and it's at least part of the reason Ty and Seymour are ripping you.

It's a shame, because you have some valid points to make in this thread, but you've somehow played that into making your adversaries look like victims.

HEM, I'm glad you came back, but you were f--king beyond rude to Hyanygo in the thread that precipitated resignation-gate. You're an honorable guy -- don't try to make your fail there Ollie's fault somehow.

Edit: Henry, I wrote this before reading your post in the Henry Times. Didn't mean to pile on.
 
Henry, do you recall how in the past I've chided you for not paying your reader the courtesy of proofreading? This thread illustrates that, and it's at least part of the reason Ty and Seymour are ripping you.

It's a shame, because you have some valid points to make in this thread, but you've somehow played that into making your adversaries look like victims.

HEM, I'm glad you came back, but you were f--king beyond rude to Hyanygo in the thread that precipitated resignation-gate. You're an honorable guy -- don't try to make your fail there Ollie's fault somehow.

Edit: Henry, I wrote this before reading your post in the Henry Times. Didn't mean to pile on.
Beyond rude? This is Europeia. We have a freedom of speech that is sacred. A freedom so sacred that we chide those who lock threads because we see it as silencing a debate that needs be had.

You are saying that my right to speak is limited by how popular it is? You are saying that my right to speak is limited to how much I sugarcoat it, and make it sound nice?

I had long standing personal issues with Hyanygo that exasperated the problems I had with the changes in our legal system. Guess what? Those were settled between Hyanygo and I. We talked that very night. I think between us, there was less ill will than between myself and several other members who scolded me via their actions that night.

The actions of those that night did not merit what happened. Not the leaving, not the sanctimonious holy talk, not the dissing us abroad, et al.

I am not saying what I did was right. I would not do it again. Not in a million years. I would have PMed Hyanygo right away and take the debate in private. But no, I will not be convinced that what has happened since is justifiable because I was "rude".
 
I had long standing personal issues with Hyanygo that exasperated the problems I had with the changes in our legal system. Guess what? Those were settled between Hyanygo and I. We talked that very night. I think between us, there was less ill will than between myself and several other members who scolded me via their actions that night.

I'm glad to hear this. Those of us who over-reacted to what you said also must take a share in the blame for what happened. I confess I was part of the problem.

The actions of those that night did not merit what happened. Not the leaving, not the sanctimonious holy talk, not the dissing us abroad, et al.

And here's where you lose me again.

Either carry a grudge, or let it go. But don't hold on to your grudge, then get indignant when others choose to nurse their lingering resentments against you.
 
I don't think he was getting indignant at that, I think he's getting indignant at the suggestion that one can only attack something if they do so in a way as to remain popular themselves.




For the record, since I've now already spoken at greater length to HEM about it, I was glad, absurdly glad, for his posts in Hyanygo's campaign thread. Obviously not the events that followed, not by a long shot, but here are a few reasons why I was genuinely gratified for the original event:

-Many of the -facts- HEM presented (irrelevant of the attitude) were the same ones I was concerned with;
-Many of the -opinions- HEM presented (irrelevant again of the manner in which they were delivered) were the same I had shared, probably for a longer period of time; and
-For too long I had felt like the only person who really voiced these matters about Hyanygo. Yet, I knew there were others who had felt the same way, but didn't wish to speak publicly.

Anyone who has ever spoken with HEM in private for example will often know quite well that he may take a strong view on a controversial subject but rarely will he come out to speak passionately about it in public (he has passionate speeches but rarely on -controversial- matters). To finally not be -alone- in the public arena is a very important thing indeed to a person.

As to his -attitude-, it was born of long-repressed frustration. Indeed, had he not held his tongue for so long, perhaps it would have seemed less...ferocious. Not that I found much of the attitude particularly terrible anyway: it was election period, Hy was running for election, and he was being asked some particularly hard questions.

...and guess what, in the term that followed, HEM's projected concerns about Hyanygo's performance were pretty much entirely confirmed. So, in addition to holding back until the appropriate time and place (ie, election season in an election thread), he was right.




Even if you dispute the facts, disagree with the opinions, and dislike the attitude, none of that made any of the following events justified. Especially since he turned out to be right. I don't think HEM was trying a few posts back to blame Oliver for the matter with Hy; but I do think he was arguing that Oliver's actions after that event were his (Oliver's) own, and not his (HEM's) fault.
 
ugh. Two choices, I either defend my reputation or let this slide. Meh, I'll let this slide.
Thank you. Despite what it looks like, I actually wasn't trying to make this about you; rather responding to the specific point above, and making another general point, so I'm glad you're being the bigger man here and keeping from pulling the topic in another direction.

For the record, I think most of our stuff is sorted out. :)
 
ugh. Two choices, I either defend my reputation or let this slide. Meh, I'll let this slide.
Thank you. Despite what it looks like, I actually wasn't trying to make this about you; rather responding to the specific point above, and making another general point, so I'm glad you're being the bigger man here and keeping from pulling the topic in another direction.

For the record, I think most of our stuff is sorted out. :)
I know it's not about me, but you do make claims. But whatever, people aren't going to take your posts seriously anyway (and most, if not all, of the other posts in this thread - it's a depressing [or hilarious] read on how y'all get so worked up about who was right and who has the largest cock).

 
Uh huh. Kookies Ollie?

*sits down*

*also has popcorn*

:popkorn:

c'mon Europeia, show me how hilarious you can get. :lol:
 
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