Too Raider? Let's get real.

Foreword:

I apologize in advance if this is a bit too rant-like, it is likely huge rant. Anyway, I've decided to post my own views on Moderatism and the UDL, with the perspective being my own. Personally, I found it interesting to think about moderatism more in depth and hope you find it interesting as well.

Moderatism

In recent weeks, this idea of moderate has emerged. According its proponent, it’s light raiding and this idea that the removal of embassies and tags are too much let alone regional destruction. Abbey harkens back to the days when Euro did multiple raids in an update that it did raid. However, this view is inconsistent considering that one of the groups she criticizes is The Black Hawks.

The whole raiding system that Europeia had in late 2010 to mid 2011 was based on The Black Hawks raiding system. This was Halcones system, this was the way The Black Hawks raided and many of the things Abbey criticizes are in fact staples of The Black Hawks. When she states that she wouldn’t likely build ties with new groups, I highly suspect that she means The Black Hawks, a group whose members have been critical of the idea of the moderatism advanced by herself.

The strangest part for me about moderatism, is that Abbey states she has no issue with any Europeian raids and most of the raids Europeia supports. Her qualm was that she was being ordered to support those few raids. The Europeian response led by myself and then-President North East Somerset was to include Abbey within the current structure and deal with her concerns as a whole by allowing her to create her own group within the Navy. This however was rejected and subsequent offers of teamwork were also rejected. I think the trouble with Abbeys moderate movement is that it has established itself as being distinct from the current Navy and from it’s roots with The Black Hawks.

The Issue with the UDL

Our foreign policy should be based on more than simply raiding and defending. This has been consistent both in Foreign Affairs and on the military side of things. After all, our Navy was used to build ties with The South Pacific and other game created regions and the treaties we signed were with non-raider regions. This whole idea of increased militarism and move into raiderdom is not supported by the facts. In fact, it is difficult to say where this view even came into being. After all, we moved away from Halcone (The Black Hawks) flash raiding and into a more independent focus. What were our proudest achievements last term?

Military

Working with The South Pacific.

Re-Founding A United Kingdom, the descendent of a former FRA region.

Foreign Affairs

A treaty with Lazarus

Advancing our ties with independent and neutral regions

Yet, somehow it has been stated by some that opposing the UDL in foreign affairs is an example of extreme-raiderism. This is despite the fact that the reasons for advancing this view never touches upon the fact that it’s due to they’re raider. It’s due to the fact that they hold anti-Europeian policies.

Their leader, Unibot, has been willing to oppose Europeia in any spectrum due to the fact that we raid. Our values do not matter and the fact that we’re a democracy is taken a slap in the face to them. After all, how can those who impose tyranny on natives (Note: UDL rhetoric) be non-tyrannical? According to Unibot, our system is built for those tyrants and not a true democracy. Hence, according to the UDL, Europeia must be opposed and punished for its crimes. Any acceptance of Europeia on the world stage is a legitimization of its “bullying” and “intolerance”. The lengths he will go to oppose anyone associated with raiding are long and bizarre.

Recently in The South Pacific (he’s a judge there), he lobbied all the UDLers (many of them inactive) in the region to vote against the upcoming TNI treaty due to the fact that it raids. Another UDLer joined TSP simply to vote against that treaty, although the UDL claims that he did this on his own accord and wasn’t ordered to influence the regions vote. He accused former Delegate Southern Bellz (the Delegate disposed in Sedge’s coup of the region) of working for DEN. Another long time citizen, Antarial, with no ties to The New Inquisition was secretly a TNIer according to Unibot.

In Balder, similar election dirty tricks were employed to try to prevent anyone with raider ties from gaining a position. As well, his brazen recruiting of members from other regions and organizations is also a cause for concern. But my biggest qualm with Unibot is the abuse he levels at those who oppose him. It is here, that I’m likely biased towards the organization, perhaps too much so. But the stuff he says to people at times is extremely hateful. It is here that I call hypocrisy on this idea that the group was created to prevent bullying. Unibot has commented that he says what he says because “people get in the way”.

Is this really a raider/defender phenomenon as those moderates label it as?

Defender stalwarts, TITO will not work with them and refuse to have relations.

The defender org and alliance, the FRA, according to Unibot and other UDL higher-ups are utterly corrupt. (Unibot resigned from the FRA as Arch-Chancellor). The FRA is not kind to the UDL in turn.

The Rejected Realms is infamous for it’s rivalry with Unibot, stemming from Unibots accusation that they have always had it in for him and had forced him from the FRA. The issue of harassment by Unibot in TRR for example, is denounced as politics by those within the UDL.

Clearly, it is not a raider perspective to oppose Unibot and the UDL. There is a reason why people have such fervent dislike of the organization and why its members often have to state they are only with it to defend and are willing to put aside their qualm with the actions of Unibot and its leadership. Yet, there are those within the region who are willing to degrade the conversation to say that to oppose the UDL is an example of how raider we are. Does that make TRR really raider as well? It’s an untrue argument.

I realize that, I have obsession with the organization and leader stemming from my own personal dispute with Unibot. I don’t think my thought process is that of an extreme raider and in fact, never touch upon that issue. For me, I have no issues with defenders or those who defend. My issues with the UDL as an organization stem from the actions of Unibot and the UDL beyond the R/D game as well as my own personal dispute with Unibot.

It is extremely annoying to see these dismissed as simply raider and this is a large reason why I loved being a neutral, because people couldn’t bring that word in to dismiss your arguments. I’d also like to point out that the rhetoric from the UDL has been damaging to the R/D game itself and have in fact galvanized more people to fight it.

Back in the Moderatism

I disagree with many of the premises to the moderate movement, namely the fact that those in it seek to degrade our relationship and interaction with the UDL to simply raiding and defending. It is more than that. What is the line?

The idea of moderatism shouldn’t be one of opposition. It is not new; it is not special; it is not even deep. Similar movements have always been in Europeia, but have always been held by those who are able to look at the NS world as more than simply raiding and defending. The premise is simple: We don’t let raiding get out of hand. That is moderatism. How in the world does that deal with what I’ve stated about the world of Foreign Affairs? It is too limited. You need more. You simply can’t use it to try to advance ideas.

The Rejected Realms was brought up. So, according to moderatism, we should sign a treaty with them right and if we don’t we’re extreme raiders?

But what about the fact that long time TRR stalwart Sedge couped Southern Bellz of The South Pacific and that TRR didn’t support aiding the region? This was directly in conflict with our own support of The South Pacific.

Whoops, sorry moderatism… didn’t mean to demonstrate how limited you are.

Anyway, my main issue with how it is that it has been used. It’s not a foreign policy and it’s not effective at looking at our region whose actions are based on a complex combination of values and how we look at the world. It’s an idea for how we should raid and that’s what it should remain. Ever heard of “Honourable Raiding” moderatism? It’s the same idea, but one that didn’t decide to make itself more than it was and decided to work within our Foreign Policy. Making decisions based on our values rather than for raiding, moderate or not. This is what is happening.

It can be useful and beneficial for the region, but not in the way that it has been presented. Why not work with Honourable Raiding and push for a set of new raiding standards for Europeia? Boom! That’s how you get the changes you want by bringing those ideas to the Presidential candidates, it’s not that hard.

Next up: Part II

 

[Cormac]

Where did he say he speaks for defenders again? Feel free to point it out.

He said I dismissed his comments because he's a defender, but I dismissed his comments because he's Unibot. I don't -- or at least didn't prior to being called an idiot and a hypocrite -- dismiss your comments as soon as I saw them, and you're a defender. My point is that he acts as though he speaks for all defenders and that we don't like him because he's a defender, but that's not it. We don't like him because we don't like him, and if we don't like the UDL it's primarily because he leads it.

My take on this situation is that it doesn't have anything to do with not liking moderate raiders or defenders, but more to do with disliking or at least having a problem with individuals. It's not fair to say that people don't like Unibot because he's a defender; people don't like Unibot because he's Unibot. It's also not fair to say that the people who have a problem with Abbey have a problem with her because she's a soft or moderate raider -- rather, it's because of things she has said and actions she has taken in the past.

So let's all stop hiding behind our labels and dismissing others' criticisms because "they just don't like defenders" or "they just don't like soft raiders." No. People criticize Unibot because they don't like Unibot. And people criticize Abbey because they don't like some of the things she's said and done in the past. It has nothing to do with blanket dislike or opposition to their ideologies.

 

[Cormac]

I find it dissatisfactory that you would become a raider and do all of things raiders do just to spite one person on the opposing factions side.

What I see of Unibot here is a thoughtful, intelligent, well-spoken human being. You want to take him down a peg because of what? What exactly?

You can find it dissatisfactory all you want, but it's true. Now mind you that's not why I stayed a raider, but it did have a lot to do with why I initially went in that direction.

Yes, what we see here today from Unibot is "a thoughtful, intelligent, well-spoken human being." But that's not always what we see of Unibot. What we sometimes see of him is cussing people out on MSN. Sometimes we see him calling someone on the NS General Assembly forum "Bible Boy" because of his Catholic beliefs and then flaming him so thoroughly -- again, for his Catholic beliefs -- that the moderators ban him for a week. And then Unibot and other defenders turn around and accuse Europeia and others involved in the raid on Catholic of being anti-Catholic! This is ironic given that while the debate over "Liberate Catholic" was going on, Unibot couldn't participate because he had been banned from the forum for anti-Catholic flaming.

Fair or not, Unibot's behavior does reflect badly on the UDL specifically because of his leadership role and to a lesser degree on defenders in general. This will continue to be the case while he's the most prominent defender in the game.

 

[Henry]

I'm missing some comments in this post from the last page - I've been distracted by some stuff irl.

If you’re trying to bully me into leaving, then I have to say that you’re doing a pretty damned good job.  I’m dreading logging on, because I don’t want to know what you’ve said about me while I was asleep.  Then you’re surprised when Euro becomes a smaller priority for me.

THUS, the person supporting the raid as a part of the Naval force "IS FORCED" to support a raid that winds up doing things you disagree with (or be instantly discharged from the Navy and get booted from the region).

Was Fortana discharged from the Navy and booted from the region when he wouldn't support the raid on Catholic due to the religious connotation? I'm not sure how you arrived at your conclusion.

A one off refusal wouldn’t get you booted. But I’m fairly sure that once you’ve refused every raid for a couple of months you’re getting fairly close.

You absolutely cannot accuse me of painting a different picture to reality when you’re consistently misrepresenting my views (see: numerous corrections in this thread).
Oh, great, you’ve made it so that more people can help various raiding organisations pile. That hardly helps us who do want to update raid but not have to support all the time. At all.

My issue with this idea of moderatism, is that it's false with regards to painting the current picture. The way we raid, with the exception of playing a style that is based on our strengths, hasn't changed. Our Foreign Policy has been extremely open and signing treaties lately with neutral regions. Our Navy itself has broadened its base to be more independent, working with multiple groups such as the South Pacific Army and works to be more reflective of the Europeian population as a whole.

If your issue is with a few of the raids that we support, then say that, rather than say that the region as a whole is less moderate when in fact it's arguably as inclusive as it's ever been. In reality, Abbey is asking us to be less inclusive in what has been a very diverse Navy.

But it's simple. If you want change, then make change happen. Focus your energies on addressing the raids you don't like and changing the policy to be less inclusive towards that. Bring it up in the Presidential races. That's how you get things done.

You can’t have it both ways. I have said that my issue is with the raids that the ERN is supporting. Multiple times. The reason I then infer that it’s less moderate is because if you’d stick by the moderate values then you wouldn’t always support those raids.

I’m trying to make change happen. But look at this thread. All that I get for trying is being dogpiled, my name dragged through the mud, and my time in Euro generally becoming no fun whatsoever. It was brought up in a presidential race, and because of their choice of me, their actual platform is being largely ignored.

Now, NES:

I’ll repeat what I said about that being 11pm at night, and I was mightily pissed off that you decided to pursue the conversation anyway. Actually, you decided to pursue it just as I said that I was going to bed on IRC. I thought that it was really really bad form to release MSN conversations? I also happened to not be able to keep logs at that particular moment in time, so I would appreciate it if you would send me a copy of the logs which you plainly have because I have a feeling that one or two of those comments may have been taken out of context (or further explanation ignored). But it was 11pm, and I was freaking tired, so who knows?

I’ll address what you’ve quoted one at a time:

1. At that point. no, Europeia wasn’t my priority. And look at what my attempts to move it into a higher priority have ended up with.

2. I can tell from that sentence that you’ve taken that out of context. You’re cherry picking the bits that make me look bad and removing the parts of the sentences which make those comments more reasonable. Please bloody don’t.

3. Hmmm, we’ve not been that busy, no. But Jamie is now a raider, by the by. We’ve not done loads of raids because I have this mysterious thing called a life, which has been stopping me being online at minors all the freaking time, because to be on then I can’t do anything afterschool. So, between concerts, and maths tutoring and job interviews, no, I’ve not been able to raid much. And when we did try, that happened to be the minor that went horribly wrong and managed to run into major.

4. I didn’t ask for backup from anyone. Anyone who’s supporting me is doing entirely of their own accord.

5. Who I am friends with has no relevance to this conversation. I have been friends with both of them long before any of this, and I’ll hopefully continue for a long time afterwards. But right now, I’m feeling for myself why they both left. When I hang out on IRC, I don’t give two flying fucks whether the person that I’m talking to is a raider or defender or something else inbetween and the topics of conversation rarely come into those topics - they only tend to when there’s banter between the sides after a raid. That’s something that I really enjoy and would entirely miss if I couldn’t do it.

My interests are split - but so are yours, and so are a lot of other people’s. But like I said above, as soon as I try to drag my interest back here a bit more, I get this. It’s hardly going to motivate me, is it?

If you haven't noticed by now: this is a common theme. Abbey's not the first person to come forward and say something of this nature.

A lot of people have felt the wrath of Europeia come down upon their heads for simply stepping up and saying something.

You accuse other people; you try to shift the blame elsewhere, but it continues to come back and back around on you.

The people that don't allow themselves to be drawn into this circle of negativity wind up moving on to other regions and usually get shit talked about them whenever they pop up in conversation or just pop up, or they just vanish quietly and you never even remember them. And you wonder why they talk shit about Europeia; land of eternal disillusionment.

 

[Henry]

I find it dissatisfactory that you would become a raider and do all of things raiders do just to spite one person on the opposing factions side.

What I see of Unibot here is a thoughtful, intelligent, well-spoken human being. You want to take him down a peg because of what? What exactly?

You can find it dissatisfactory all you want, but it's true. Now mind you that's not why I stayed a raider, but it did have a lot to do with why I initially went in that direction.

Yes, what we see here today from Unibot is "a thoughtful, intelligent, well-spoken human being." But that's not always what we see of Unibot. What we sometimes see of him is cussing people out on MSN. Sometimes we see him calling someone on the NS General Assembly forum "Bible Boy" because of his Catholic beliefs and then flaming him so thoroughly -- again, for his Catholic beliefs -- that the moderators ban him for a week. And then Unibot and other defenders turn around and accuse Europeia and others involved in the raid on Catholic of being anti-Catholic! This is ironic given that while the debate over "Liberate Catholic" was going on, Unibot couldn't participate because he had been banned from the forum for anti-Catholic flaming.

Fair or not, Unibot's behavior does reflect badly on the UDL specifically because of his leadership role and to a lesser degree on defenders in general. This will continue to be the case while he's the most prominent defender in the game.

again, you're an idiot.

Unibot is just as human as anyone else. I don't doubt that he flamed a catholic person; got banned for it; and then later on got on someone elses case for doing much the same thing. That shows growth and the understanding that what he did was wrong. That's not hypocrisy.

 

[George Cromartie]

I find it dissatisfactory that you would become a raider and do all of things raiders do just to spite one person on the opposing factions side.

What I see of Unibot here is a thoughtful, intelligent, well-spoken human being. You want to take him down a peg because of what? What exactly?

You can find it dissatisfactory all you want, but it's true. Now mind you that's not why I stayed a raider, but it did have a lot to do with why I initially went in that direction.

Yes, what we see here today from Unibot is "a thoughtful, intelligent, well-spoken human being." But that's not always what we see of Unibot. What we sometimes see of him is cussing people out on MSN. Sometimes we see him calling someone on the NS General Assembly forum "Bible Boy" because of his Catholic beliefs and then flaming him so thoroughly -- again, for his Catholic beliefs -- that the moderators ban him for a week. And then Unibot and other defenders turn around and accuse Europeia and others involved in the raid on Catholic of being anti-Catholic! This is ironic given that while the debate over "Liberate Catholic" was going on, Unibot couldn't participate because he had been banned from the forum for anti-Catholic flaming.

Fair or not, Unibot's behavior does reflect badly on the UDL specifically because of his leadership role and to a lesser degree on defenders in general. This will continue to be the case while he's the most prominent defender in the game.

You do know that a) his comment was meant in character and b) had it been any other WAer no one on the moderation team would've batted an eyelid?

 

[Rach]

I find it dissatisfactory that you would become a raider and do all of things raiders do just to spite one person on the opposing factions side.

What I see of Unibot here is a thoughtful, intelligent, well-spoken human being. You want to take him down a peg because of what? What exactly?

You can find it dissatisfactory all you want, but it's true. Now mind you that's not why I stayed a raider, but it did have a lot to do with why I initially went in that direction.

Yes, what we see here today from Unibot is "a thoughtful, intelligent, well-spoken human being." But that's not always what we see of Unibot. What we sometimes see of him is cussing people out on MSN. Sometimes we see him calling someone on the NS General Assembly forum "Bible Boy" because of his Catholic beliefs and then flaming him so thoroughly -- again, for his Catholic beliefs -- that the moderators ban him for a week. And then Unibot and other defenders turn around and accuse Europeia and others involved in the raid on Catholic of being anti-Catholic! This is ironic given that while the debate over "Liberate Catholic" was going on, Unibot couldn't participate because he had been banned from the forum for anti-Catholic flaming.

Fair or not, Unibot's behavior does reflect badly on the UDL specifically because of his leadership role and to a lesser degree on defenders in general. This will continue to be the case while he's the most prominent defender in the game.

again, you're an idiot.

Unibot is just as human as anyone else. I don't doubt that he flamed a catholic person; got banned for it; and then later on got on someone elses case for doing much the same thing. That shows growth and the understanding that what he did was wrong. That's not hypocrisy.

Why do you feel the need to call him an idiot rather than simply stating your point? I'm not sure how it enhances your point and could be detrimental, particularly since you just criticized people for being too negative.

 

[Cormac]

You do know that a) his comment was meant in character and b) had it been any other WAer no one on the moderation team would've batted an eyelid?

Sorry, but that's not going to fly. He has a pattern of the same kind of behavior both in and out of character. Has he also been in character when he's insulted people via MSN? And besides that, there are limits to what is and isn't appropriate even in character and he definitely crossed that line. I don't know whether the moderation team would have batted an eyelid because I've never seen any other WAer act that way. My understanding is that he was temporarily banned because he had behaved that way and been warned for it repeatedly, so it's not like he shouldn't have known better.

You folks don't get to run around and accuse raiders of being anti-Catholic for invading a region called Catholic just because its citizens are Catholics, then turn around and dismiss criticism of your dear leader when it's noted that he was temporarily banned from the NS forum for anti-Catholic flaming.

 

[Rach]

A one off refusal wouldn’t get you booted. But I’m fairly sure that once you’ve refused every raid for a couple of months you’re getting fairly close.

You absolutely cannot accuse me of painting a different picture to reality when you’re consistently misrepresenting my views (see: numerous corrections in this thread).
Oh, great, you’ve made it so that more people can help various raiding organisations pile. That hardly helps us who do want to update raid but not have to support all the time. At all.

I'm not sure how my point "you could have been fitted in" is not being understood. The only person who has prevented your own participation in the ERN, according to your own standards even, is yourself.

I absolutely can. The picture is different, as evidenced by what I just stated above.

I'm not sure why you make that snide comment Abbey that is really inconsistent with reality. The whole point to my comment was that there were a ton of different opportunities, which you ignored. It just goes to show that the only person who is preventing your inclusion within the Navy to do what you want to do is yourself. What was your issue with working feeder organizations in training missions or with helping TUK get a home back? What of the training raids in which we'd change the WFE back when we left?

 

[Cormac]

I'm not even going to debate whether this was appropriate anymore. We all know it wasn't.

 

[Henry]

I find it dissatisfactory that you would become a raider and do all of things raiders do just to spite one person on the opposing factions side.

What I see of Unibot here is a thoughtful, intelligent, well-spoken human being. You want to take him down a peg because of what? What exactly?

You can find it dissatisfactory all you want, but it's true. Now mind you that's not why I stayed a raider, but it did have a lot to do with why I initially went in that direction.

Yes, what we see here today from Unibot is "a thoughtful, intelligent, well-spoken human being." But that's not always what we see of Unibot. What we sometimes see of him is cussing people out on MSN. Sometimes we see him calling someone on the NS General Assembly forum "Bible Boy" because of his Catholic beliefs and then flaming him so thoroughly -- again, for his Catholic beliefs -- that the moderators ban him for a week. And then Unibot and other defenders turn around and accuse Europeia and others involved in the raid on Catholic of being anti-Catholic! This is ironic given that while the debate over "Liberate Catholic" was going on, Unibot couldn't participate because he had been banned from the forum for anti-Catholic flaming.

Fair or not, Unibot's behavior does reflect badly on the UDL specifically because of his leadership role and to a lesser degree on defenders in general. This will continue to be the case while he's the most prominent defender in the game.

again, you're an idiot.

Unibot is just as human as anyone else. I don't doubt that he flamed a catholic person; got banned for it; and then later on got on someone elses case for doing much the same thing. That shows growth and the understanding that what he did was wrong. That's not hypocrisy.

Why do you feel the need to call him an idiot rather than simply stating your point? I'm not sure how it enhances your point and could be detrimental, particularly since you just criticized people for being too negative.

It doesn't. In fact it hurts my point, simply because there's people like you who feel the need to call attention to it in the attempts to detract from the truth of what I say simply because of the method in which I say it.

Perhaps a clarification of what I meant? I didn't mean that he is an idiot all the time or that he is an idiot forever and all times. I mean that he is being an idiot in this situation by not considering all possible meanings behind something while pursuing what he chooses to believe because of the negativity resting in him.

Maybe to make him think about how negativity affects people so that he is less likely to treat think negatively of them because people will, in turn, think negatively of him?

Maybe because I am inclined to be very intolerant of ignorance and negativity while being human enough to succumb to it because it's all I've ever really known. But, I'm used to people being at odds with me for how I react to things. I got teased and bullied unmercifully throughout many years of my life. I change my views on the world and I make the attempt to better myself. I am no longer the person I was a few years ago when I started this game as a Raider.

Is it wrong of me to expect others to grow similarly and is not human of me to be disappointed that Cormac has simply chosen to keep alive a seeming hatred for a person that stems from a single incident? Do you not want to be forgiven for your own mistakes so much that you choose not to forgive others for theirs? Or is it simply the fact that you have yet to forgive yourself, so you don't see how anyone else could forgive you; so you don't see the point of forgiving other people?

Everyone is so big on judging each other; and I'm honestly no different. Is it wrong of me not to keep talking about becoming better just because I'm not becoming better fast enough for other people? Anything that's difficult needs repeated attempts instead of just giving up. When I get depressed and down; I don't just stay depressed and down. I fight against it with everything I have until I rise out of it again, because I've spent too much of my life trapped in a pit of negativity.

My guess is that other people are like me and they suffer like me. I can't keep that thought in my head at all times and I insult people without thinking some times, simply because I get frustrated or disappointed; but I get just as frustrated and disappointed with myself when I fail to see beyond the immediate picture.

This silliness is way over the top and it should never have gotten to this point. Anger and rage are hollow emotions. Grudges are better to be gotten rid of than held onto.

 

[George Cromartie]

You do know that a) his comment was meant in character and b) had it been any other WAer no one on the moderation team would've batted an eyelid?

Sorry, but that's not going to fly. He has a pattern of the same kind of behavior both in and out of character. Has he also been in character when he's insulted people via MSN?

I don't give a shit what he says to people on MSN because I know there's been instances where he's been invited to MSN conversations just to troll him.

And yet again I'm forced to repeat something I have to say often:

Keep. Private. Crap. Private.

And besides that, there are limits to what is and isn't appropriate even in character and he definitely crossed that line.

You clearly have no idea about RP.

I don't know whether the moderation team would have batted an eyelid because I've never seen any other WAer act that way.

Then start paying attention.

My understanding is that he was temporarily banned because he had behaved that way and been warned for it repeatedly, so it's not like he shouldn't have known better.

Shockingly not everyone is treated equally by the NS moderation team.

You folks don't get to run around and accuse raiders of being anti-Catholic for invading a region called Catholic just because its citizens are Catholics,

And there it is again. 'You folks'.

then turn around and dismiss criticism of your dear leader when it's noted that he was temporarily banned from the NS forum for anti-Catholic flaming.

Clearly a comment that was meant in-character is proof of Unibot being anti-Catholic and not, y'know, Unibot flaming CD for being, y'know, CD.

 

[George Cromartie]

I'm not even going to debate whether this was appropriate anymore. We all know it wasn't.

"You're wrong! And I'm not going to talk about it anymore! Because it's obvious!"

 

[Rach]

@Henry: It's doesn't detract because people like me highlight it. The very merit of it detracts. I highlighted it for the reason that you wish to debate a point with a more positive atmosphere. It's entirely possible to do that, but if you start swearing you are simply contributing to that.

Let's face it, people get frustrated. They express that in different ways, often negatively through something like swearing. People are in the same boat as you. They get frustrated about things, you get frustrated with their expression of frustration. But if all we're doing is getting frustrated with eachother, it's a vicious circle getting more and more frustrated about eachother and our situation!

So, if you feel that the negativity is a problem you need to address the reasons why people are being negative while trying to not make anyone more frustrated.

I hope I explained that well

 

[George Cromartie]

Rachel that's about the only thing you've explained well in the entire thread.

But how is 'idiot' swearing

 

[Henry]

Ok, so maybe we could all just back away from this issue for a bit and take a breather to rethink things, if all we're doing is getting frustrated with each others frustration?

I know I'd sure like to see the pressure let out of this tire before it explodes.

 

[Cormac]

Ok, so maybe we could all just back away from this issue for a bit and take a breather to rethink things, if all we're doing is getting frustrated with each others frustration?

I know I'd sure like to see the pressure let out of this tire before it explodes.

Personally I already wish I hadn't gotten involved in it, so I think this is an excellent idea.

 

[unibot]

He said I dismissed his comments because he's a defender, but I dismissed his comments because he's Unibot.

And that is a very poor argument.

Sometimes we see him calling someone on the NS General Assembly forum "Bible Boy" because of his Catholic beliefs and then flaming him so thoroughly -- again, for his Catholic beliefs --

You do realize that my WA Character, Eduard Heir, gives everyone nicknames and Bible Boy or variations of it are CD's ambassador's nickname. I based the inclination to nickname on Sawyer from LOST. Eduard has called people necrophiliacs and often acts absolutely sexist and it has never gotten me "in trouble", because that's a roleplaying freedom. In the WA it's customary to "opt-out" of IC, otherwise you're in-character since the forum is debate-style. The ruling was rather unprecedented, it flew in the face of past rulings as I've argued because the mod's reasoning was "there was no definite indication that it was IC, so we have to call it flamebaiting", when their reasoning should have been "there is no definite indication that it was OOC, so we have to say it isn't flamebaiting".

As for my swearing, put yourself in a conversation with your former two-time president of Europeia, Rachel Anumia for an hour where she spends it attacking you and your region or any reason she can think of, don't sleep for days, pop a couple of pills and see if you come out of it not swearing. She has no "switch off" valve when it comes to attacking me or my organization and I don't have the patience for her. I have her on ignore on MSN and IRC now and that's that.

 

[PASD]

Not gonna lie. This has been wonderful entertainment watching you guys go at each other. Thanks for the laughs when I needed them. :wub:

 

[Kylia Quilor]

As for my swearing, put yourself in a conversation with your former two-time president of Europeia, Rachel Anumia for an hour where she spends it attacking you and your region or any reason she can think of, don't sleep for days, pop a couple of pills and see if you come out of it not swearing. She has no "switch off" valve when it comes to attacking me or my organization and I don't have the patience for her. I have her on ignore on MSN and IRC now and that's that.

Well maybe you should get more sleep then, Unibot, if you don't want to keep having those comments thrown in your face.

And its not the 'bible boy' comment that I think was entirely uncalled for, but everything else around it

Bullshit Bible-boy, don't fuck around with me, I could loophole you out of your mother's vagina faster than you could say "murder".

Given the context of what CD was saying, I really don't see how all of that was warranted. He wasn't approaching that level of vitriol.

 

[unibot]

As for my swearing, put yourself in a conversation with your former two-time president of Europeia, Rachel Anumia for an hour where she spends it attacking you and your region or any reason she can think of, don't sleep for days, pop a couple of pills and see if you come out of it not swearing. She has no "switch off" valve when it comes to attacking me or my organization and I don't have the patience for her. I have her on ignore on MSN and IRC now and that's that.

Well maybe you should get more sleep then, Unibot, if you don't want to keep having those comments thrown in your face.

And its not the 'bible boy' comment that I think was entirely uncalled for, but everything else around it

Bullshit Bible-boy, don't fuck around with me, I could loophole you out of your mother's vagina faster than you could say "murder".

Given the context of what CD was saying, I really don't see how all of that was warranted. He wasn't approaching that level of vitriol.

Well maybe you should get more sleep then, Unibot, if you don't want to keep having those comments thrown in your face.

At that point in time, update was three hours long and I needed to stay up to organize liberations for the morning, if I was to try to avoid piling. That meant it was unlikely I slept at all for days at times. My fault, sure, but sometimes when people are yelling they have problems going on in their lives.

As for that comment, the context makes perfect sense. CD had hide a clause in the resolution that blocked the discussion of abortion entirely, but he had insisted that he would do no such thing. Eduard was simply saying in a rather violent way (I and other authors thought it was funny but I guess you don't agree): don't try to con a con artist.