#RecallAnumia: An IRC Live Chat

[Calvin Coolidge]

Earlier this week, World Assembly Delegate and Vice Chancellor Mousebumples posted a petition in the Grand Hall to start a recall election for Senator Anumia, citing his absence from the forum and lack of activity when he was around. The petition quickly gathered the required six signatures to trigger a recall election from: Mousebumples, Calvin Coolidge, Cool Spring, Kaboomlandia, Sopo, and prometheus32.

The petition had its share of critics, the most vocal being Shin 2.0 and Ninja Kittens, who both felt the petition was premature, as the term had barely begun. However, it seemed that their criticisms would be for naught, as the petition was ready to go to vote, when Anumia suddenly returned, causing Calvin Coolidge to retract his support for the petition, and the number of supporters to fall to five.

This triggered chaos as many took to the thread to wonder whether or not the region's referendum law would allow for the removal of support after quorum was reached. Chief Justice Drecq weighed in, saying "A vote has been petitioned and there is no legal avenue to take it back. Once the petition has reached the required threshold the referendum must be posed."

To ensure the Court had an easier time interpreting the petition, should it come to that, Notolecta (a former Chief Justice himself) and Senator/Minister Rylian both voiced their support for the petition, getting the number of supporters above quorum once again.

Supreme Chancellor HEM settled the issue by calling the recall election, while also stating his personal belief that, had Notolecta and Rylian not voiced their support, the referendum should not have gone forward.

The election is now live, and at the time of this article being published the vote is tied 3-3 on whether or not to recall Anumia from his Senate position. We will be providing updates, as well as commentary from our IRC panel currently underway as the election continues.

 

[Calvin Coolidge]

Calvin Coolidge: So, the election is now underway, what are our initial thoughts on the election itself? Should it be taking place?

Mousebumples: I don't know if polls should have been opened before rylian and noto expressed their support - perhaps only to clear up any legal muddiness - and i don't claim to be a legal expert in that regard and as i've said to shin, and others, elsewhere - while i feel compassion for anumia if he's going through a rough personal life situation right now, the fact stilll remains that i'm not sure if he has the time or activity to be an effective senator for europeia _right now_ when RL is going nuts, euro shouldn't be your priority

ShinTwoPointOh: There's nothing against the law for the recall to proceed, but I am making a contention that signatures to the petition *as it stands* after it stood could be in conflict with a section of the criminal code regarding accuracy of information. after it stood = After Anumia posted

Mousebumples: have fun filing that AO, shin. the petition was to recall anumia from the senate. the post was "supporting facts at the time of posting"

Notolecta: That is highly unlikely, and also I don't think that it's just legal I think it's mandatory for the vote to have opened.

Mousebumples: he should be able to just focus in on what he needs to handle in RL - and perhaps his cabinet position as well, for the remaining 2-ish weeks of the term - rather than trying to spread himself too thin, perhaps

Notolecta: Obviously there is some contention on that issue, but I think when you have two people who have held the office of CJ saying something is mandatory you should at the very least figure out a way to accommodate that possibility.

 

[Calvin Coolidge]

Kraketopia: I feel like in all this, people took out the personal aspect of the game and made it political when it didn't need to be. Granted, this is a political sim, I get that.  But I don't think this should have been a political issue this early on. Especially given the personal aspect of the problems impacting Anumia.

Mousebumples> kraken, i understand _now_ that it's personal; however, we didn't know any of that.

Rylian: Yes, he messaged me on Tuesday that we should catch up, I said "definitely, I'm around".. other than some help concerning law he quickly answered, we have not chatted.

ShinTwoPointOh: I'm just raising hypotheticals, far be it from me to represent what Anumia actually knows and has seen.

Mousebumples: And i can understand that he didn't know when he would be back to post an LoA, but we've had indefinite LOA's before

CSP: It is and given the situation, it's no longer incumbent upon people to reach out to him for an answer. He knows his feet are to the fire and knows to act accordingly. Him not doing so, I won't guess why.

Mousebumples: Didn't imperium have one when he was hit by a car or whatever?

Notolecta: Kraken while he may have personal problems going on, that doens't exuse dissappearing without notice or resigning, under any circumstances.

Kraketopia: If it was longer I'd agree with you Noto.  Not under this short period of time.

CSP: No, it doesn't but maybe we don't need to shame him with a full recall referendum

Mousebumples: Posting to say "i've had some RL issues arise that i'd rather not get into, so i won't be able to be active for the next few days, possibly longer. kraken will serve as my senate substitute." would have been appreciated.

CSP: I'm not defending his performance. I don't think he should have run for office to begin with so don't get me wrong. I agree with your motivation. It's clear though that this could have been handled in a way that afforded someone struggling with a shred of dignity.

ShinTwoPointOh: This really does set a pretty bad precedent for how we treat people that have personal situations arising and can't get on to do an LoA.

Notolecta: I don't think it does, he should have resigned.

Mousebumples: ^

Kraketopia: That's the thing about Anumia though, he always wants to strive to be better.  And given the wonderful things he's done for the region, he's capable of them

Rylian: I feel that I gave Anumia an out, a way to respond to either being active or saying he needed time.  He has had over 48 hours to respond.  That's more than our voting periods.

Notolecta: If I did it and didn't resign regardless of my situation I'd expect to be removed.

Kraketopia: My gut instinct is let him have a second chance, if he screws up again, then we can talk about throwing him out. Or asking him to resign

ShinTwoPointOh: Or he could appoint a substitute while the situation is ongoing. That could also have been raised for an option for Anumia to take.

Rylian: Or that.  He knew that there is concern.

Mousebumples: if anumia had responded to rylian's question saying that he expected things to improve in the next few days and would be more active, i would have removed my own support for my own petition

ShinTwoPointOh: So why resort to the most extreme option?

Mousebumples: shin, anumia should know the law at this point - why do we have to present him with optionsi? appointing a substitute has _always_ been an option for him to pursue

Notolecta: Anumia is responsible for deciding he needs a substitute or to make arrangements, we don't have to tell him to do it.

ShinTwoPointOh: You don't need to tell him to be recalled either, but that seems to be something you're more than happy to do.

 

[Calvin Coolidge]

CalvinCoolidge: Do we have any predictions on how this will end?

Mousebumples: i figure it'll be close, but i honestly don't know

CSP: It'll be close but Anumia will lose his seat. Just my gut. I could be very wrong.

Notolecta: Orignally I was excepting him to just keep his seat, but it'll be close either way and I don't know what will happen.

CalvinCoolidge: Do we think this sets some sort of precedence for the region on inactive elected officials in any way?

CSP: I hope not. This isn't the appropriate mechanism for voicing general displeasure.

Kraketopia: I think if Anumia loses his seat this is the final straw for him in Euro.  I know he was upset about being voted out.

CSP: If it is, we all better quit our jobs.

Kraketopia: Which would be a real shame considering all he's done for this region.

ShinTwoPointOh: Frankly this is a distasteful way to treat a storied citizen of our region.

Notolecta: I don't think it does, I mean we didn't see it happen with that full senate removal.

ShinTwoPointOh: It's disrespectful, and using legalese to be petty.

CalvinCoolidge: Do we think this is in any way tied to the recent steps taken by the CA to combat inactivity?

Kraketopia: I doubt it

CSP: There's a place for tact in our political discourse. There was very little present from start to finish in this case.

Mousebumples: i hadn't considered that - could be possible, but i wouldn't count on it

CalvinCoolidge: How will this impact the Senate going forward? Will they be able to put this past them, you think?

Kraketopia: Nothing great, but not horrible. IT depends, to me

CSP: I don't expect it to disrupt the work of the Senate.

CalvinCoolidge: Will there be some looking at referendum laws, perhaps?

ShinTwoPointOh: It'll impact Anumia more than it'll impact the Senate.

Notolecta: I don't think it does anything to the Senate.

Kraketopia: More about what happens with Anumia, and whether he can move beyond this if he's thrown out. Than it is about the Senate. I think it'll be business as usual for the Senate

CSP: ^

Rylian: We have a strong Speaker and CSP, Drecq, and I have all be pretty active.  We do definitely need to finalize referendum laws, which I believe we are waiting on a Court opinion on due to the 50th Senate

Notolecta: The court issued it's opinion

Mousebumples: And mal had a followup question, if i'm not mistaken.

 

[Calvin Coolidge]

CSP: I'm on record as saying Anumia running really screwed Starstream and GraVandius out of a great opportunity. This may be their second shot.

Notolecta: I will say one thing I don't think anumia's history in the region has or should have anything to do with how the issue is handled, everyone should be handled the same way in situations like this.

Rylian: If Anumia is recalled, I would hope that Kraken would at least consider finishing the term. I could also see this a good time to have a more green member to join since they would enjoy having the Senate leadership from Mal, Drecq, and CSP which are all remarkably skilled

Notolecta: No one should get special treatment when the are inactive because they are new or old, honored or not, ect.

Mousebumples: To rylian: If Anumia is recalled, I would hope that Kraken would at least consider finishing the term. <-- huh? You hope that kraken will run? or .... ???

CSP: I don't see how you don't give someone like Anumia consideration that you wouldn't give somebody who hasn't given what he's given. He shouldn't get a free ride and he should ultimately have to answer for his actions or inactions but yes, of course it's different.

Rylian: yes, that Kraken would run

Mousebumples: gotcha, that wasn't super-clear

ShinTwoPointOh: He shouldn't get a free ride, definitely, but there should have been alternate ways of handling this.

CSP: So. Final thoughts. I'll wait.

Notolecta: I disagree CSP. His past doesn't change the present. We can't act based on the past.

Kraketopia: Thank you for the vote of confidence Rylian

Notolecta: at least not if that ignores that present.

Rylian: I do wonder, Shin, if it would've been any better if he was called before the Senate by the Speaker.

Kraketopia: Well, I think the past effects the present in that we know Anumia is capable and has good intentions. Whereas if someone new came in, and did this

ShinTwoPointOh: It would have Ry.

Kraketopia: We'd question it more

Rylian: if it he had appeared, maybe. If he hadn't.... a removal by the Senate would've been... extremely unfortunate

Mousebumples: Does anumia's relative inactivity most of this term as MoFA factor into anyone else's thought process here?

Notolecta: I don't think his intentions matter, if he can't fufill the job even if he intends to it still doesn't get done

CalvinCoolidge: The vote is now 4-6, in favor of him keeping the seat.

Mousebumples: from outward appearances - and, granted, MoFA has a lot of background stuff that we don't see - not much has happened there either, and i'll admit that played a role in my evaluation of his activity since taking on the senate seat as well (not to get bogged down with less "final statements," but i guess i don't really have a final statement )

CSP: Nobody knows how active or inactive the MoFA ever is, to be honest.

Rylian: It's very hard to judge MoFA due to its classified nature. I personally tried not to use it as a consideration.

Notolecta: I really am more paying attention to the fact that he hasn't done much in the last month or so from what I can see.

Mousebumples: ^

Notolecta: Also can I say if I ever take a position and am gone for so much as 3 days without a single post please remove me from whatever that post is.

CSP: Deal.

 

[Anumia]

I cannot go on to the IRC very easily on my phone, but in response to a couple of things:

-I missed responding to Rylian's question but in fairness had already effectively answered it in my own post beforehand. He asked if I felt myself capable to continue and I had already made that clear at the ending of my post, so there would have been nothing new in my answer.

-I am not upset over this recall vote. As I have said to a couple of people already who have talked about it, I was more disappointed in myself than anything else at the time of my return.

-The proceedings of the petition have seemed fairly natural: once it was begun, the recall vote seemed likely to proceed. Less natural perhaps was its initiation: I believe it sets the highest bar ever seen on the activity of a Senator; while I will not claim it is necessarily unfair or unreasonable, and signing citizens are well within their rights to have concerns and indeed to have signed, but as noted by a few in the thread, entire terms of inactivity have been ignored before. The Senate itself has not expelled Senators for what we must accept is even less activity or over a greater period. It would be wrong for me to argue that I have been treated unjustly here - I haven't - but the question should be asked: why was the line drawn in the sand -this- time, when nothing has come even close before?

Have we now spontaneously entered a new era of a much higher bar of activity? If so, I am sure all current Senators including myself will be up to the task, but looking back on Senates and Senators past I wonder if it will be a sustainable metric. Is it less of a general rule; does it have more to do with the manner in which I was elected? I'm sure some people were displeased with that, though the vote left me with a clear distance above the next runner. Was the Senate languishing especially with my absence? Shin might say so but discussions hasn't stalled from a lack of my input, and there is actually comparatively little in terms of Senate decision making that I have missed. I know not the specific motivation, but would argue the terms of the recall are this:

-Do you believe my absence was grievous enough to warrant my removal, and should that (relative to previous inactivities of various Senators) higher standard be applied henceforth? or
-Do you believe that after reading my explanation and despite the resolution of the matters occurring that kept me from the forum, I will still be unable to perform my duties as a Senator?

If the answer to either question is yes, likely so should be your vote. If you believe however that I am returned, and that my proven abilities in the Senate shall return also to the great benefit of that place, and if you believe the work I have done and can do outweighs what I freely admit was a temporary but very poor showing, then I would urge you to vote no.