Writinglegend Welcome all. Thank you for coming. As usual, there are some rules.
Writinglegend First, only candidates and the moderator are allowed to post in this.
Writinglegend I don't see anyone with OP, so, if you are not debating or moderating, join #euro to talk about the debate as it happens live
Writinglegend If anyone has any questions that want to be asked during the debate, please send them to me via Skype, IRC PM, or Forum PM.
Writinglegend We will starts with foreign policy questions, and then more domestic questions first, if that's OK
Writinglegend When you are done answering a question, please follow your answer with (done)
Writinglegend Once all have answered, we will move on to rebuttals. Does anyone want a specific placement, or can we just go with Mala-Cal-Rach?
Rach That sounds right as rain
CalvinCoolidge Indeed.
Malashaan Works for me
Writinglegend Any questions?
CalvinCoolidge Do you have questions?
Writinglegend Of course
CalvinCoolidge Then I'm good.
Writinglegend We will begin with foreign and Navy questions
Writinglegend From the Peanut Gallery: Would you support the allied invasion of Canada if it was your decision back in August? Do you feel we shouldn't raid regions we have embassies with?
Writinglegend Malashaan first.
Writinglegend *should/shouldn't
Malashaan I wasn't very involved in the Navy at that point, and so I say this with the proviso that I am relying on the facts as reported second and third hand
Malashaan But based on what I know of the facts, I would have advised against our involvement at the time. That said, it is certainly within our rights to have taken part. As others have noted, we have non-aggression clauses in our treaties, accords and other agreements. The fact that we had no such agreement iwth Canada implicitly means we have not agreed not to raid them.
Writinglegend (if you are done with your answer, put (done))
Malashaan I think that we should a degree of resistance to raiding regions with which we have embassies - it is generally not something that refelcts well on us - but if the FA reasons for doing so are adequate, we should not consider embassies a total shield. If we did so, it would make the inclusion of non-aggresssion clauses in our treaties essetially meaningless.
Malashaan Done
Writinglegend Calvin
Writinglegend Your turn
CalvinCoolidge Like Mal, I also was not involved in the ERN at the time, so I am also relying on recycled information. That being said, I believe the Canada incident was regrettable, in that we participated in a hold on a region we had an embassy with, which I believe should be discouraged. However, we did not do anything wrong, technically speaking. (Done)
Writinglegend Rach
Rach As no one has answered whether or not they would have supported the mission or not, I will state that I would have supported the Canada mission with the one caveat that I would have first closed their embassy rather than have raided them with an embassy. Thus we can still do what is in our best interests without stepping on any toes and avoid any unfortunate
Rachincidents. It is important that when we participate in missions that we are taking every precaution and taking in all the data as well as ensuring that there is co-operation and information being passed through to the President especially in the cases of potentially contentious missions.
Rach (done)
Writinglegend Rebuttal (if any), starting with Malashaan
Malashaan I just don't think the idea that we could close their embassy with them and then raid would have worked. The whole incident arose because we got asked to help out of the mission at the last minute and had to make a quick decision
Malashaan Closing our embassy with them and then occupying them a few hours later would look at least as bad, and probably worse, than any negative perception genrated by the actual event
Malashaan (done)
Rach (can I reply or is it Calvins turn or what?)
Writinglegend (yes)
Writinglegend (you can reply)
CalvinCoolidge (So, not my turn? I'm making a thing. D
Rach I disagree with the notion that we shouldn't close embassies with regions that are relatively inactive and which have missions being planned against them. Malashaan is forgetting that Canada was not simply a "tag" raid but that it was in planning for a long time. This is why it is vital to build our bilateral ties so that we may make informed decisions and
Rach decide long prior to the mission whether or not to participate. It is only when we are out of the know and when we are not able to fully digest information that we increase our likelihood of making a mistake. I do not think it is worse to close embassies prior to raiding them because it at least shows we are
Rach cognizant of the fact that we have embassies with them and aren't left with an awkward situation for weeks after. (done)
CalvinCoolidge I don't know for sure if the Canada mission had been planned by the ERN for a long time or not (as I said, I was active in it then). What I do know is that if we want to conduct a raid so far ahead of time, as you stated, there are many other targets to pick that we have no formal ties to. If it was a snap decision, then I could see that we might have to agree with our raiding partner, or something, but either way, what you s
CalvinCoolidge *You = Rach
Malashaan I would add that the goal of being involved in planning from the begining is a good one, but it is a fact that sometimes missions like this come along - yes it had been planned by others for a long time but they only came to the ERN at the 11th hour. I...
Malashaan don't know why that was - the ERN wasn't what it is now back then, or maybe they realized last minute they were short a few hands. Whatever the reason, the fact was that the ERN was faced with a snap decision - and at that point, cancelling the embassy wouldn't have helped. It would have looked underhanded to post we were cancelling embassies and then occupy them immediately afterwards
CalvinCoolidge (I heard that my answer got cut off, so... *what you suggest still seems in bad taste)
Malashaan I agree that cancelling embassies with innactive regions is something we should be doing as appropriate, but with regard to this question, that isn't what happened - by the time the military question came along - it was too late for cancellation to ehlp
Malashaan (done)
Writinglegend Are we done and can move on?
Rach I think what both Calvin and Malashaan aren't realizing is that we didn't participate in the actual raid of Canada as we clearly were not part of the process. Rather, we were asked to help provide re-enforcements. Our foreign affairs philosophy has always been based upon the notion that regions which can't secure themselves as in the case of Canada aren't
Malashaan I don't believe that is the case - I believe we provided troops for the force that captured the region - but as I said, I wasn't involved in the ERN at the time
Rach that sovereign. Thus, it is not a big deal to end an embassy with a region that can't even prevent itself from being raided. If only simply reads the statement by the Grand Admiral at the time, it is clear that we were asked following the raid to support it. So I am unsure about why Malashaan and Calvin have stated they are not fully informed of the details.
Rach Malashaan, if you wish... you may read about the actual raid here: http://s6.zetaboards.com/Europeia/topic/8912059/1/
Rach As well, I would like to request that you do not respond to my points until after I have finished speaking (done).
CalvinCoolidge If you are saying that we should raid (or assist in the hold, as it was in this case) any region without a founder, or that can't secure itself, regardless of who they are, even if they are a region with an active embassy (unlike Canada), then that seems very misguided. (Done)
Rach That is not what I am saying, as I would prefer to avoid raiding regions with embassies altogether. However, in the case of Canada it was clear that we should have applied more diplomacy to the issue. (done)
Malashaan That is something we can all agree on (done)
Writinglegend We will be moving on now
Malashaan I will add that there was a lot more discussion about the exact series of events than is present in CSP's announcement - at least some of it would undoubtedly count as classified under the current law, so I'm not sure how much can be gained from discussing the fine details
Malashaan (done)
Writinglegend Sorta a foreign question along the lines of the International Paper. From NES: Do you believe Europeia should build a media source independent of the TRR Times - and do you agree that TRR Times is a problem for Europeia?
Malashaan Me first?
Writinglegend Yes. Mala-Calvin-Rach
Malashaan TRR Times certainly presents a messaging problem for Europeia. They are openly hostile towards us on a fairly regular basis and there's not an equivalent newspaper providing a counter narrative on the world stage right now
Malashaan That said, I do think we are doing an increasingly effective job of ocuntering the narrative in other ways - whether it be interating with other regions through the Winter Ball, helping out with delegacy transfers, reaching out to medium size regions diplomatically, our use of dispatchess, etc. etc. etc.
Malashaan Having an International Paper would certianly be a very valuable tool, but it is more important to do it right than just do it - and that takes a very specific skill set and a lot of time. As President, I recently made the decision to focus more on quick news updates rather than putting togetehr a traditional newspaper. I think this is the correct approach at present. It gets our narrative out there, and if it continues to go wel
Malashaan Paper will be a more feasible project for a future President to launch
Malashaan (done)
CalvinCoolidge I believe Europeia should pursue an international media source. Whether or not it would be along the same lines as the Times, in terms of outright bias, I think not. I believe we have the ability to create and release media in several forms, as we already do through dispatches, and the EON, and I would really like us to take advantage of what we can already do before undertaking a massive project that we have shown we can't d
CalvinCoolidge platform to tarnish our image on a frequent basis, and blatantly misrepresents us at times. Not to mention the fact that they set the tone in media in a way that is decidedly against us and our allies. I hope that by cultivating our current FA media tools, down the line a future President can create a more formal international paper. (Done)
CalvinCoolidge (My answer was cut off. *a massive project that we have shown we can't do right now. I agree that the Times is a problem for Europeia in that it uses its)
Writinglegend Rach
Rach I think we have to first acknowledge the fact that Malashaan has dropped the ball when it comes to providing a counter narrative and fulfilling his promise of developing a foreign newspaper. During his term we have seen ONE foreign update that is quite short and unpolished based on Europeian standards. It was not even posted on the NS forums, with the last
Rach activity there being the foreign update I helped write! http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=109571&hilit=europeian+embassy&start=250. If one would like to see the "quick news updates" that Malashaan and Mousebumples team has produced, one can see the single foreign update here: http://balderns.net/topic/10803694/1/
Rach Clearly, not only has the promise to create the newspaper been embarked on but even this narrative that Europeia has been engaging with short news to combat the TRR times, is patently false. Under a Seven Death and Rachel administration we do not take failure lightly. Rather we are inspired to do the things that others have failed to do. It is not an
NES_ The Foreign Update is here: http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=22691514#p22691514
Malashaan Indeed - we have published three official releases this term
NES_ 2 of them were just invitations to the Winter Ball.
NES_ This isn't a "focus more on quick news updates" - it's total incompetence and ineptitude.
Rach Impossible task to create a newspaper worthy of the Europeian name. While the Rejected Realms might have talent, they are nowhere near Europeia and we can produce a paper even greater than TRR can. We will work with our allies to create a foreign affairs paper and to actually create our own narrative to compete with the TRT.
NES_ You have a whole Department dedicated to this, and this is the best you can do.
NES_ Pathetic. Anyway I'll pipe down now.
Rach And as NES said, it is rather pathetic that that is the full amount of news updates we can produce... two invitations and one actual update. Anyone who thinks a Seven Deaths and Rachel administration would accomplish so little would be proven wrong again and again. We are a results based ticket. (done)
Malashaan Firstly, as NES pointed out - updates were published gameside promptly, so that part of your warrantless attack was just plain wrong. Second, you are showing your lack of knowledge of what has been going on with
Malashaan this. There hasn't been as much activity with regards to traditional updates. Part of that was a direct result of the International Paper project, and part of it was a consious move towards other approaches.
NES_ No I didn't, I didn't point that out at all. I'm saying your Administration has made an utter balls up of Foreign Updates.
NES_ And the International Paper has flopped as well.
Malashaan I certainly don't think we had the ideal balance this term, but one of the main reasons I made the decision to refocus the International Paper was precisely becuase it was eating up respurces that could be mreo effectively used elsewhere
NES_ That has been one of the key initatives this term, and its seen some of the most ineffective Leadership I've seen in my time in Europeia.
Rach Clearly, a warranted "attack". What international paper Malashaan?
CalvinCoolidge I think that Rach also forgot to answer the part of the question where she states whether or not she would pursue an International Paper, and whether The Times is a threat to us. So, most of the question. She just attacked Malashaan.
Rach I have blank sheets of paper that are as complete as the international paper
NES_ It warrants an attack, it really does.
NES_ There is a whole Ministry dedicated to publishing foreign PR material.
Rach Clearly, I believe The Times is a threat to us as I am the most active one here when it comes to debating the points made in it......
NES_ (as well as domestic publications, which were very nice thank you very much)
Malashaan We put together a team of experienced Europeians tasked specifically with creating an International Paper, and we went through cycle of cyle of content being produced and then rejected for various reasons
Malashaan cycle after cycle
NES_ You should have put your foot down.
NES_ And published something.
Rach Then perhaps we should change the leadership to people who can get things done?
NES_ Thats the problem.
Malashaan I did, countless times - and what I got ultimately was then rushed content that wasn't good enough to put out
NES_ No one is prepared to take decisions at the top
Malashaan That is just BS - I did exactly that - I could have put a paper out, but it would have been crap, so I made the decision to axe it
Rach If it would have been crap, that reflects on the leadership as well.
Writinglegend Alright, NES. I'd like to thank you for your input. Any further comments should be put into #euro
Malashaan I pushed for the paper longer than most people were advising me it was worth while because I thought (and still do believe) that if we made it work - it would be hugely valuable
Rach Incompetence makes me so mad!
Writinglegend Alright
Writinglegend Let's get back to the question.
Writinglegend Do you believe Europeia should build a media source independent of the TRR Times - and do you agree that TRR Times is a problem for Europeia?
Writinglegend For reference, that was the question.
Writinglegend Did all candidates answer?
MalashaanWhere the discussion ended up is the only way to answer that question
Writinglegend Alright. Can we move on then?
Rach I just want want to say that yes it should and that of course it is.
Rach Yes.
Writinglegend Little poll
CalvinCoolidge Rach/NES, there are clearly more issues here than a leadership issue. As I have said previously, the staff was unwilling to cooperate, and the many articles we presented were shot down. I think it was a group failure, and anyone that just blames me or Malashaan needs to accept that. Also, WL, I think we are discussing the question.
Rach It's a classic sports question... do you fire the coaching staff (Mal and Mouse) or trade the players?
CalvinCoolidge Both may be in order.
MalashaanThat's a bad analogy. The real analogy is how do you put a team together when you don't have players at all
Writinglegend Alright, alright
Writinglegend One last statement from each candidate and then we are moving on.
Rach So Malashaan is saying Europeia has no talent in this department
Writinglegend Starting with Malashaan
Writinglegend And then CalvinCoolidge
Writinglegend And ending with Rach
Writinglegend Last comments (if any)
Writinglegend (So we can move on)
Writinglegend If there are no last comments, just say so so we can move on
Rach Oh, I have last comments... just waiting for the others
CalvinCoolidge As do I.
Malashaan Rach wants to paint this in a utopian light where we can magically have an International Paper if we just push harder. The facts of the mattter are though that such a project requires people who are both good writers, have a lot of time, and are very knowledgable about NS politics. We have lots of people who meet two and
Malashaan even three of those criteria - but the last two months of extensive cylves and pushing show that we do not have people with all three of those requirements at present. There is nothing that can be done to fix that other than what we are doing - building our media service to increase our resources in this area
Malashaan (done)
Writinglegend Calvin....
CalvinCoolidge I agree that the International Paper project is being greatly misrepresented by Rach/NES. Like Mal said, many of the staff had those criteria and were unwilling to cooperate, or just didn't have the criteria. All three are required, he's right, and we need to acknowledge that, yes, an International Paper can be made, but we need to focus on what can be done right now, with the use of the EON, dispatches, etc. (Done)
Rach I think it is clear that blaming Europeians and saying that it is their fault for not being good enough to do such a project is not only patently false but extremely damaging. Is this our answer for whenever things don't go correctly? Even if this narrative is true... why can't we look outside for help which is something the TRT has done again and again.
Rach We can be doing this in other ways, which is why I have stated I will work with allies to get this done. Failure is not an option and I know that we can make anything work quite easily. There is talent out there for writing the paper and bringing them on board will aid Europeia as a whole. If you want your foreign paper and you want it to be as great as it
Rach can be. The clear answer is to vote Seven Deaths and Rachel and we will never blame Europeia for failures. The buck stops with us and we are creative enough to always find solutions. (done)
Writinglegend Alright. Moving on
Writinglegend Little poll for the candidates. Do we want one more foreign question or move on to domestic matters?
Rach I think we have barely started to scratch the surface when it comes to foreign affairs. Thus, I vote for at least one more.
CalvinCoolidge I agree.
Writinglegend I'll regurgitate this one from yesterday that was discussed. With Sopo recently publishing an article on our foreign affairs, what will you do to ensure more foreign information is public, and discussed as a community? What do you make of his proposals (Optional)?
Writinglegend Mala-Cal-Rach
Writinglegend Same order
Malashaan This is something I discussed with a lot of people, including Sopo, before his article and it is always going to be a balancing act. A lot of FA work necessarily occurs behind closed doors
Malashaan That said, it is healthy for the populace as a whole to express opinions and get involved. I certainly think that greater discussion, at least at a general level is a good thing.
Malashaan I also think that it is important to broaden our concept of foreign affairs. A good way to get people involved is events like the winter ball, where regular citizens interact and build relationships with people from other regions. That undoubtedly helps with our FA and I hope the next president will continue to explore such options
Malashaan I also think the ambassador training program that is under development is essential - we need our ambassadors to be educated on NS politics, but also to engage on a more regular basis with the region's they are assigned to.
Malashaan Overall, I think Sopo's proposals are positive suggestions worhty of serious consideration - but they should not be the only steps - the more we can open the Europeia citizenry to the world, the more they will be willing and able to debate matters of substance
Malashaan (done)
Writinglegend Calvin...
CalvinCoolidge I think there has been a severe lack in FA information being told to the public, at more than just a basic level. Updates have always been a big thing of mine, and I see no reason why those should stop in the Goldenblock. Obviously, sensitive information will be handled carefully, and I support the EAAC's mission and all that. Sopo makes good points and I agree with pretty much all of them. A big way we can get people more in
CalvinCoolidge actually see these events, and understand how we, as a region, feel about them. (Done)
CalvinCoolidge (I was cut off again *A big way we can get people more involved is to just talk about FA events, to open the door for our citizens to)
Writinglegend Rach....
CalvinCoolidge (*lack of FA information)
Rach Well, I think that clearly there can be more done to ensure more foreign information is public and discussed as a community. It is my opinion that the President, the EAAC and the Minister of Foreign Affairs can be publishing regular updates as part of their mandate.
Rach In addition, with our training program we would seek to also increase the general amount of knowledge about foreign regions available to regular members of the community. People might not know this, but I was the one who initially put the update requirements on the EAAC. So clearly it is a big issue for me.
Rach Why trust the current team when you can go with the tried and true for FA communication?
Rach (done)
Writinglegend Try and make rebuttals (if any) quick. I know Mala has to go soon
Malashaan I have nothing - getting more information out to the public without comprosming security is going to be one of the major issues facing the next President, whoever they are
CalvinCoolidge I agree, I think I made my point, and I can move on.
Rach I can move on too
Rach But I won't!
Rach I'm kidding, we can really move on
Writinglegend Moving on to Domestic Questions.
Writinglegend I liked this question from Vinage, so I'm putting it here: In regards then to the CSO and the responsibility of the Assistant Ministers, is there anything new you would personally propose or even do, to ensure that we see you as being active?
Writinglegend Full Question: It can sometimes be a challenge for a Vice President to look 'busy' and active due to the variation in the role and a lot of the background tasks that you'll have to conduct. In regards then to the CSO and the responsibility of the Assistant Ministers, is there anything new you would personally propose or even do, to ensure that we see you as b
Writinglegend *being active
Writinglegend We are switching it up
Writinglegend Who wants to go first, second, and third?
CalvinCoolidge Just flip it, I guess.
Writinglegend Rach-Mala-Calvin?
Rach Okies
Rach Well, I think there is a lot of work that can be done in terms of the assistant ministers and helping with the integration process. It would be my goal as Vice-President to work on doing the work that might otherwise be overlooked. One of the great things I have as a VP is that I have pretty much held every single position in cabinet. This allows me to aid
Rach every single ministry and to also communicate with other parties such as the delegacy or the city council to help us fully develop programs to their maximum potential.
Rach (done)
Writinglegend Mala.....
Malashaan With the CSO having been moved to a sign-up system, and a lot of information about available rolls going out in various TGs and PMs, the VP is freed up to focus more on personalization.
Malashaan As VP, I would like to start a pro-active program of seeking out newcomers to fulfil specific needs. For example, if Communication feels it is short of writers versed in a particular concept, a mixture of "classified ads" and direct approaches to people I believe might be intersted could be used.
Malashaan I think this would get more people into work and would also address the common comlaint I used to hear from AMs - they were assigned and then had nothing to do. We need to very consciously start giving all AMs specific tasks - even if the Minister feels they can "just do it themselves" - it might help efficiency in the short term, but in the long term it stifles development
Malashaan (done)
CalvinCoolidge I think, again, there is a lot of value in weekly updates to make sure the public knows what we are doing, including the AMs. In our platform, Noto and I would be moving to a system where you sign up once, and you are in all the Ministries
CalvinCoolidge That would break down a lot of the barriers, and encourage AMs and newcomers to really get involved in what they like based on the work they see inside, not just what they can see on the outside. Another benefit of the updates would be
CalvinCoolidge to show people on the outside what each Ministry actually does, to encourage more people to join, get involved, etc. Hopefully, all of that would help the CSO and the VP seems active and involved, because I would be. (Done)
Writinglegend Any rebuttals?
CalvinCoolidge I'm fine moving on.
Malashaan Not from me
Writinglegend Regurgitating this from Hy yesterday, but a good question nonetheless: Excluding pap answers such as "I'll do what needs to be done and not do what does not need to be done", what is the candidate's overall philosophy?
Malashaan Shall I go ahead and answer seen as Rach is apparently at lunch?
Writinglegend Yes.
Malashaan My overall philosophy is pragmatism. I think all too often people get caught up in idealism. Player time is probably the most limiting factor in NS governance, and being in an Executive roll means
Malashaan making hard decisions about what is the best way to use the time people are willing to commit
Malashaan Ultimately, this decision should come down to what gives the region the best value for the time spent, which is a hard factor to calculate as there are a lot of benefits and disadvantage to any decision
Malashaan Despite the comments of some here, I think the overall results of the last term show that Mouse and I made good judgments in this area, and will continue to do so if elected. Funny that you and Rach have liked to criticize my leadership but recruitment is up, retention is up, activity is up, political engagement is up, and we've strenghtened relations with a number of other regions, including The South Pacific and the Allied Repub
Malashaan (done)
Writinglegend CalvinCoolidge
CalvinCoolidge My philosophy is to what is best for the region, of course, and I feel the best way to do that is to keep people informed, on pretty much all that we do (sensitive stuff is a separate issue, although that would be included in some way). A lot of government work is done through collaboration with many people, and that is something that all of us need to work on. If elected, I will carry out both of these goals: communication a
CalvinCoolidge *to do
Writinglegend (You were cut off at "communication a")
CalvinCoolidge (*communication and collaboration, to get the job done. (Done))
Writinglegend Any rebuttals?
Writinglegend I wouldn't think they're needed here.....
Writinglegend Rach is back, so I'll let her answer the question.
Rach My philosophy is pretty much in line with that of Kaizen which is a philosophy of continuos improvement and self-examination. My creativity and experience allows me to constantly make each position better and improve our record on a number of fields. For me, there is no perfection only striving towards that. I believe that cabinet is a team and that is must
Rach function well as a unit. Lastly, I place a great deal of importance on leadership and believe that we should always hold ourselves most accountable for actions. It is as the Greeks say which is that the wise ruler is he who comes up with the best plan for success. It is the leader who knows what will succeed and what won't succeed.
Rach Thus, I always look at the leadership to lead and I think it is disingenuous when the citizenry are blamed since it is the leaderships responsibility to put in play the policies that will lead to success.
Rach (done)
Writinglegend Alright. Any rebuttals?
Writinglegend If not, we can move on to our last question
CalvinCoolidge I'm good to move on.
Writinglegend Everyone else good to move on?
Rach yes
Rach I need to leave soon
Malashaan Yeah, I need to run in 2 mionutes anyway
Writinglegend As our final question, why should voters vote for your ticket come voting day? Why should they not vote for any of the other tickets?
Writinglegend Rach-Mala-Cal
Rach Voters should vote for our ticket if they wish to see the greatest improvement and improved accountability as well as visibility. Everything we promised we can do, and we won't blame the populace if policies do not succeed. Rather we believe that we can always get things to work and if they do not work then they were poor policies to begin with as policies
Rach should always be geared towards the populace.
Rach As well, some people mention my "assets" which might be a bonus I guess....
Rach (done)
CalvinCoolidge Voters should vote for our ticket because we are changing the status quo, despite the somehow "conservative" nature of our platform, which proposes a lot of change in the CSO, and other areas. Further,
CalvinCoolidge we promise to be more open with this region about what we are up to, and we promise to try our hardest to improve the areas that need improving. The previous term did a lot right, and we can build on that, to make it a lot better, hopefully. (Done)
Writinglegend Malashaan
Malashaan The region has seen a lot of success this term, and some areas still need further development. I believe that Mouse will continue to improve the region and I am well placed to asist her, having been involved in every ministry this term.
Malashaan (done - and got to run - bye all)
CalvinCoolidge All right, good talk, people.
CalvinCoolidge Very exciting stuff.
Writinglegend Thank you guys for coming. Expect this to be in the EBC shortly.
Writinglegend First, only candidates and the moderator are allowed to post in this.
Writinglegend I don't see anyone with OP, so, if you are not debating or moderating, join #euro to talk about the debate as it happens live
Writinglegend If anyone has any questions that want to be asked during the debate, please send them to me via Skype, IRC PM, or Forum PM.
Writinglegend We will starts with foreign policy questions, and then more domestic questions first, if that's OK
Writinglegend When you are done answering a question, please follow your answer with (done)
Writinglegend Once all have answered, we will move on to rebuttals. Does anyone want a specific placement, or can we just go with Mala-Cal-Rach?
Rach That sounds right as rain
CalvinCoolidge Indeed.
Malashaan Works for me
Writinglegend Any questions?
CalvinCoolidge Do you have questions?
Writinglegend Of course
CalvinCoolidge Then I'm good.
Writinglegend We will begin with foreign and Navy questions
Writinglegend From the Peanut Gallery: Would you support the allied invasion of Canada if it was your decision back in August? Do you feel we shouldn't raid regions we have embassies with?
Writinglegend Malashaan first.
Writinglegend *should/shouldn't
Malashaan I wasn't very involved in the Navy at that point, and so I say this with the proviso that I am relying on the facts as reported second and third hand
Malashaan But based on what I know of the facts, I would have advised against our involvement at the time. That said, it is certainly within our rights to have taken part. As others have noted, we have non-aggression clauses in our treaties, accords and other agreements. The fact that we had no such agreement iwth Canada implicitly means we have not agreed not to raid them.
Writinglegend (if you are done with your answer, put (done))
Malashaan I think that we should a degree of resistance to raiding regions with which we have embassies - it is generally not something that refelcts well on us - but if the FA reasons for doing so are adequate, we should not consider embassies a total shield. If we did so, it would make the inclusion of non-aggresssion clauses in our treaties essetially meaningless.
Malashaan Done
Writinglegend Calvin
Writinglegend Your turn
CalvinCoolidge Like Mal, I also was not involved in the ERN at the time, so I am also relying on recycled information. That being said, I believe the Canada incident was regrettable, in that we participated in a hold on a region we had an embassy with, which I believe should be discouraged. However, we did not do anything wrong, technically speaking. (Done)
Writinglegend Rach
Rach As no one has answered whether or not they would have supported the mission or not, I will state that I would have supported the Canada mission with the one caveat that I would have first closed their embassy rather than have raided them with an embassy. Thus we can still do what is in our best interests without stepping on any toes and avoid any unfortunate
Rachincidents. It is important that when we participate in missions that we are taking every precaution and taking in all the data as well as ensuring that there is co-operation and information being passed through to the President especially in the cases of potentially contentious missions.
Rach (done)
Writinglegend Rebuttal (if any), starting with Malashaan
Malashaan I just don't think the idea that we could close their embassy with them and then raid would have worked. The whole incident arose because we got asked to help out of the mission at the last minute and had to make a quick decision
Malashaan Closing our embassy with them and then occupying them a few hours later would look at least as bad, and probably worse, than any negative perception genrated by the actual event
Malashaan (done)
Rach (can I reply or is it Calvins turn or what?)
Writinglegend (yes)
Writinglegend (you can reply)
CalvinCoolidge (So, not my turn? I'm making a thing. D
Rach I disagree with the notion that we shouldn't close embassies with regions that are relatively inactive and which have missions being planned against them. Malashaan is forgetting that Canada was not simply a "tag" raid but that it was in planning for a long time. This is why it is vital to build our bilateral ties so that we may make informed decisions and
Rach decide long prior to the mission whether or not to participate. It is only when we are out of the know and when we are not able to fully digest information that we increase our likelihood of making a mistake. I do not think it is worse to close embassies prior to raiding them because it at least shows we are
Rach cognizant of the fact that we have embassies with them and aren't left with an awkward situation for weeks after. (done)
CalvinCoolidge I don't know for sure if the Canada mission had been planned by the ERN for a long time or not (as I said, I was active in it then). What I do know is that if we want to conduct a raid so far ahead of time, as you stated, there are many other targets to pick that we have no formal ties to. If it was a snap decision, then I could see that we might have to agree with our raiding partner, or something, but either way, what you s
CalvinCoolidge *You = Rach
Malashaan I would add that the goal of being involved in planning from the begining is a good one, but it is a fact that sometimes missions like this come along - yes it had been planned by others for a long time but they only came to the ERN at the 11th hour. I...
Malashaan don't know why that was - the ERN wasn't what it is now back then, or maybe they realized last minute they were short a few hands. Whatever the reason, the fact was that the ERN was faced with a snap decision - and at that point, cancelling the embassy wouldn't have helped. It would have looked underhanded to post we were cancelling embassies and then occupy them immediately afterwards
CalvinCoolidge (I heard that my answer got cut off, so... *what you suggest still seems in bad taste)
Malashaan I agree that cancelling embassies with innactive regions is something we should be doing as appropriate, but with regard to this question, that isn't what happened - by the time the military question came along - it was too late for cancellation to ehlp
Malashaan (done)
Writinglegend Are we done and can move on?
Rach I think what both Calvin and Malashaan aren't realizing is that we didn't participate in the actual raid of Canada as we clearly were not part of the process. Rather, we were asked to help provide re-enforcements. Our foreign affairs philosophy has always been based upon the notion that regions which can't secure themselves as in the case of Canada aren't
Malashaan I don't believe that is the case - I believe we provided troops for the force that captured the region - but as I said, I wasn't involved in the ERN at the time
Rach that sovereign. Thus, it is not a big deal to end an embassy with a region that can't even prevent itself from being raided. If only simply reads the statement by the Grand Admiral at the time, it is clear that we were asked following the raid to support it. So I am unsure about why Malashaan and Calvin have stated they are not fully informed of the details.
Rach Malashaan, if you wish... you may read about the actual raid here: http://s6.zetaboards.com/Europeia/topic/8912059/1/
Rach As well, I would like to request that you do not respond to my points until after I have finished speaking (done).
CalvinCoolidge If you are saying that we should raid (or assist in the hold, as it was in this case) any region without a founder, or that can't secure itself, regardless of who they are, even if they are a region with an active embassy (unlike Canada), then that seems very misguided. (Done)
Rach That is not what I am saying, as I would prefer to avoid raiding regions with embassies altogether. However, in the case of Canada it was clear that we should have applied more diplomacy to the issue. (done)
Malashaan That is something we can all agree on (done)
Writinglegend We will be moving on now
Malashaan I will add that there was a lot more discussion about the exact series of events than is present in CSP's announcement - at least some of it would undoubtedly count as classified under the current law, so I'm not sure how much can be gained from discussing the fine details
Malashaan (done)
Writinglegend Sorta a foreign question along the lines of the International Paper. From NES: Do you believe Europeia should build a media source independent of the TRR Times - and do you agree that TRR Times is a problem for Europeia?
Malashaan Me first?
Writinglegend Yes. Mala-Calvin-Rach
Malashaan TRR Times certainly presents a messaging problem for Europeia. They are openly hostile towards us on a fairly regular basis and there's not an equivalent newspaper providing a counter narrative on the world stage right now
Malashaan That said, I do think we are doing an increasingly effective job of ocuntering the narrative in other ways - whether it be interating with other regions through the Winter Ball, helping out with delegacy transfers, reaching out to medium size regions diplomatically, our use of dispatchess, etc. etc. etc.
Malashaan Having an International Paper would certianly be a very valuable tool, but it is more important to do it right than just do it - and that takes a very specific skill set and a lot of time. As President, I recently made the decision to focus more on quick news updates rather than putting togetehr a traditional newspaper. I think this is the correct approach at present. It gets our narrative out there, and if it continues to go wel
Malashaan Paper will be a more feasible project for a future President to launch
Malashaan (done)
CalvinCoolidge I believe Europeia should pursue an international media source. Whether or not it would be along the same lines as the Times, in terms of outright bias, I think not. I believe we have the ability to create and release media in several forms, as we already do through dispatches, and the EON, and I would really like us to take advantage of what we can already do before undertaking a massive project that we have shown we can't d
CalvinCoolidge platform to tarnish our image on a frequent basis, and blatantly misrepresents us at times. Not to mention the fact that they set the tone in media in a way that is decidedly against us and our allies. I hope that by cultivating our current FA media tools, down the line a future President can create a more formal international paper. (Done)
CalvinCoolidge (My answer was cut off. *a massive project that we have shown we can't do right now. I agree that the Times is a problem for Europeia in that it uses its)
Writinglegend Rach
Rach I think we have to first acknowledge the fact that Malashaan has dropped the ball when it comes to providing a counter narrative and fulfilling his promise of developing a foreign newspaper. During his term we have seen ONE foreign update that is quite short and unpolished based on Europeian standards. It was not even posted on the NS forums, with the last
Rach activity there being the foreign update I helped write! http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=109571&hilit=europeian+embassy&start=250. If one would like to see the "quick news updates" that Malashaan and Mousebumples team has produced, one can see the single foreign update here: http://balderns.net/topic/10803694/1/
Rach Clearly, not only has the promise to create the newspaper been embarked on but even this narrative that Europeia has been engaging with short news to combat the TRR times, is patently false. Under a Seven Death and Rachel administration we do not take failure lightly. Rather we are inspired to do the things that others have failed to do. It is not an
NES_ The Foreign Update is here: http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=22691514#p22691514
Malashaan Indeed - we have published three official releases this term
NES_ 2 of them were just invitations to the Winter Ball.
NES_ This isn't a "focus more on quick news updates" - it's total incompetence and ineptitude.
Rach Impossible task to create a newspaper worthy of the Europeian name. While the Rejected Realms might have talent, they are nowhere near Europeia and we can produce a paper even greater than TRR can. We will work with our allies to create a foreign affairs paper and to actually create our own narrative to compete with the TRT.
NES_ You have a whole Department dedicated to this, and this is the best you can do.
NES_ Pathetic. Anyway I'll pipe down now.
Rach And as NES said, it is rather pathetic that that is the full amount of news updates we can produce... two invitations and one actual update. Anyone who thinks a Seven Deaths and Rachel administration would accomplish so little would be proven wrong again and again. We are a results based ticket. (done)
Malashaan Firstly, as NES pointed out - updates were published gameside promptly, so that part of your warrantless attack was just plain wrong. Second, you are showing your lack of knowledge of what has been going on with
Malashaan this. There hasn't been as much activity with regards to traditional updates. Part of that was a direct result of the International Paper project, and part of it was a consious move towards other approaches.
NES_ No I didn't, I didn't point that out at all. I'm saying your Administration has made an utter balls up of Foreign Updates.
NES_ And the International Paper has flopped as well.
Malashaan I certainly don't think we had the ideal balance this term, but one of the main reasons I made the decision to refocus the International Paper was precisely becuase it was eating up respurces that could be mreo effectively used elsewhere
NES_ That has been one of the key initatives this term, and its seen some of the most ineffective Leadership I've seen in my time in Europeia.
Rach Clearly, a warranted "attack". What international paper Malashaan?
CalvinCoolidge I think that Rach also forgot to answer the part of the question where she states whether or not she would pursue an International Paper, and whether The Times is a threat to us. So, most of the question. She just attacked Malashaan.
Rach I have blank sheets of paper that are as complete as the international paper
NES_ It warrants an attack, it really does.
NES_ There is a whole Ministry dedicated to publishing foreign PR material.
Rach Clearly, I believe The Times is a threat to us as I am the most active one here when it comes to debating the points made in it......
NES_ (as well as domestic publications, which were very nice thank you very much)
Malashaan We put together a team of experienced Europeians tasked specifically with creating an International Paper, and we went through cycle of cyle of content being produced and then rejected for various reasons
Malashaan cycle after cycle
NES_ You should have put your foot down.
NES_ And published something.
Rach Then perhaps we should change the leadership to people who can get things done?
NES_ Thats the problem.
Malashaan I did, countless times - and what I got ultimately was then rushed content that wasn't good enough to put out
NES_ No one is prepared to take decisions at the top
Malashaan That is just BS - I did exactly that - I could have put a paper out, but it would have been crap, so I made the decision to axe it
Rach If it would have been crap, that reflects on the leadership as well.
Writinglegend Alright, NES. I'd like to thank you for your input. Any further comments should be put into #euro
Malashaan I pushed for the paper longer than most people were advising me it was worth while because I thought (and still do believe) that if we made it work - it would be hugely valuable
Rach Incompetence makes me so mad!
Writinglegend Alright
Writinglegend Let's get back to the question.
Writinglegend Do you believe Europeia should build a media source independent of the TRR Times - and do you agree that TRR Times is a problem for Europeia?
Writinglegend For reference, that was the question.
Writinglegend Did all candidates answer?
MalashaanWhere the discussion ended up is the only way to answer that question
Writinglegend Alright. Can we move on then?
Rach I just want want to say that yes it should and that of course it is.
Rach Yes.
Writinglegend Little poll
CalvinCoolidge Rach/NES, there are clearly more issues here than a leadership issue. As I have said previously, the staff was unwilling to cooperate, and the many articles we presented were shot down. I think it was a group failure, and anyone that just blames me or Malashaan needs to accept that. Also, WL, I think we are discussing the question.
Rach It's a classic sports question... do you fire the coaching staff (Mal and Mouse) or trade the players?
CalvinCoolidge Both may be in order.
MalashaanThat's a bad analogy. The real analogy is how do you put a team together when you don't have players at all
Writinglegend Alright, alright
Writinglegend One last statement from each candidate and then we are moving on.
Rach So Malashaan is saying Europeia has no talent in this department
Writinglegend Starting with Malashaan
Writinglegend And then CalvinCoolidge
Writinglegend And ending with Rach
Writinglegend Last comments (if any)
Writinglegend (So we can move on)
Writinglegend If there are no last comments, just say so so we can move on
Rach Oh, I have last comments... just waiting for the others
CalvinCoolidge As do I.
Malashaan Rach wants to paint this in a utopian light where we can magically have an International Paper if we just push harder. The facts of the mattter are though that such a project requires people who are both good writers, have a lot of time, and are very knowledgable about NS politics. We have lots of people who meet two and
Malashaan even three of those criteria - but the last two months of extensive cylves and pushing show that we do not have people with all three of those requirements at present. There is nothing that can be done to fix that other than what we are doing - building our media service to increase our resources in this area
Malashaan (done)
Writinglegend Calvin....
CalvinCoolidge I agree that the International Paper project is being greatly misrepresented by Rach/NES. Like Mal said, many of the staff had those criteria and were unwilling to cooperate, or just didn't have the criteria. All three are required, he's right, and we need to acknowledge that, yes, an International Paper can be made, but we need to focus on what can be done right now, with the use of the EON, dispatches, etc. (Done)
Rach I think it is clear that blaming Europeians and saying that it is their fault for not being good enough to do such a project is not only patently false but extremely damaging. Is this our answer for whenever things don't go correctly? Even if this narrative is true... why can't we look outside for help which is something the TRT has done again and again.
Rach We can be doing this in other ways, which is why I have stated I will work with allies to get this done. Failure is not an option and I know that we can make anything work quite easily. There is talent out there for writing the paper and bringing them on board will aid Europeia as a whole. If you want your foreign paper and you want it to be as great as it
Rach can be. The clear answer is to vote Seven Deaths and Rachel and we will never blame Europeia for failures. The buck stops with us and we are creative enough to always find solutions. (done)
Writinglegend Alright. Moving on
Writinglegend Little poll for the candidates. Do we want one more foreign question or move on to domestic matters?
Rach I think we have barely started to scratch the surface when it comes to foreign affairs. Thus, I vote for at least one more.
CalvinCoolidge I agree.
Writinglegend I'll regurgitate this one from yesterday that was discussed. With Sopo recently publishing an article on our foreign affairs, what will you do to ensure more foreign information is public, and discussed as a community? What do you make of his proposals (Optional)?
Writinglegend Mala-Cal-Rach
Writinglegend Same order
Malashaan This is something I discussed with a lot of people, including Sopo, before his article and it is always going to be a balancing act. A lot of FA work necessarily occurs behind closed doors
Malashaan That said, it is healthy for the populace as a whole to express opinions and get involved. I certainly think that greater discussion, at least at a general level is a good thing.
Malashaan I also think that it is important to broaden our concept of foreign affairs. A good way to get people involved is events like the winter ball, where regular citizens interact and build relationships with people from other regions. That undoubtedly helps with our FA and I hope the next president will continue to explore such options
Malashaan I also think the ambassador training program that is under development is essential - we need our ambassadors to be educated on NS politics, but also to engage on a more regular basis with the region's they are assigned to.
Malashaan Overall, I think Sopo's proposals are positive suggestions worhty of serious consideration - but they should not be the only steps - the more we can open the Europeia citizenry to the world, the more they will be willing and able to debate matters of substance
Malashaan (done)
Writinglegend Calvin...
CalvinCoolidge I think there has been a severe lack in FA information being told to the public, at more than just a basic level. Updates have always been a big thing of mine, and I see no reason why those should stop in the Goldenblock. Obviously, sensitive information will be handled carefully, and I support the EAAC's mission and all that. Sopo makes good points and I agree with pretty much all of them. A big way we can get people more in
CalvinCoolidge actually see these events, and understand how we, as a region, feel about them. (Done)
CalvinCoolidge (I was cut off again *A big way we can get people more involved is to just talk about FA events, to open the door for our citizens to)
Writinglegend Rach....
CalvinCoolidge (*lack of FA information)
Rach Well, I think that clearly there can be more done to ensure more foreign information is public and discussed as a community. It is my opinion that the President, the EAAC and the Minister of Foreign Affairs can be publishing regular updates as part of their mandate.
Rach In addition, with our training program we would seek to also increase the general amount of knowledge about foreign regions available to regular members of the community. People might not know this, but I was the one who initially put the update requirements on the EAAC. So clearly it is a big issue for me.
Rach Why trust the current team when you can go with the tried and true for FA communication?
Rach (done)
Writinglegend Try and make rebuttals (if any) quick. I know Mala has to go soon
Malashaan I have nothing - getting more information out to the public without comprosming security is going to be one of the major issues facing the next President, whoever they are
CalvinCoolidge I agree, I think I made my point, and I can move on.
Rach I can move on too
Rach But I won't!
Rach I'm kidding, we can really move on
Writinglegend Moving on to Domestic Questions.
Writinglegend I liked this question from Vinage, so I'm putting it here: In regards then to the CSO and the responsibility of the Assistant Ministers, is there anything new you would personally propose or even do, to ensure that we see you as being active?
Writinglegend Full Question: It can sometimes be a challenge for a Vice President to look 'busy' and active due to the variation in the role and a lot of the background tasks that you'll have to conduct. In regards then to the CSO and the responsibility of the Assistant Ministers, is there anything new you would personally propose or even do, to ensure that we see you as b
Writinglegend *being active
Writinglegend We are switching it up
Writinglegend Who wants to go first, second, and third?
CalvinCoolidge Just flip it, I guess.
Writinglegend Rach-Mala-Calvin?
Rach Okies
Rach Well, I think there is a lot of work that can be done in terms of the assistant ministers and helping with the integration process. It would be my goal as Vice-President to work on doing the work that might otherwise be overlooked. One of the great things I have as a VP is that I have pretty much held every single position in cabinet. This allows me to aid
Rach every single ministry and to also communicate with other parties such as the delegacy or the city council to help us fully develop programs to their maximum potential.
Rach (done)
Writinglegend Mala.....
Malashaan With the CSO having been moved to a sign-up system, and a lot of information about available rolls going out in various TGs and PMs, the VP is freed up to focus more on personalization.
Malashaan As VP, I would like to start a pro-active program of seeking out newcomers to fulfil specific needs. For example, if Communication feels it is short of writers versed in a particular concept, a mixture of "classified ads" and direct approaches to people I believe might be intersted could be used.
Malashaan I think this would get more people into work and would also address the common comlaint I used to hear from AMs - they were assigned and then had nothing to do. We need to very consciously start giving all AMs specific tasks - even if the Minister feels they can "just do it themselves" - it might help efficiency in the short term, but in the long term it stifles development
Malashaan (done)
CalvinCoolidge I think, again, there is a lot of value in weekly updates to make sure the public knows what we are doing, including the AMs. In our platform, Noto and I would be moving to a system where you sign up once, and you are in all the Ministries
CalvinCoolidge That would break down a lot of the barriers, and encourage AMs and newcomers to really get involved in what they like based on the work they see inside, not just what they can see on the outside. Another benefit of the updates would be
CalvinCoolidge to show people on the outside what each Ministry actually does, to encourage more people to join, get involved, etc. Hopefully, all of that would help the CSO and the VP seems active and involved, because I would be. (Done)
Writinglegend Any rebuttals?
CalvinCoolidge I'm fine moving on.
Malashaan Not from me
Writinglegend Regurgitating this from Hy yesterday, but a good question nonetheless: Excluding pap answers such as "I'll do what needs to be done and not do what does not need to be done", what is the candidate's overall philosophy?
Malashaan Shall I go ahead and answer seen as Rach is apparently at lunch?
Writinglegend Yes.
Malashaan My overall philosophy is pragmatism. I think all too often people get caught up in idealism. Player time is probably the most limiting factor in NS governance, and being in an Executive roll means
Malashaan making hard decisions about what is the best way to use the time people are willing to commit
Malashaan Ultimately, this decision should come down to what gives the region the best value for the time spent, which is a hard factor to calculate as there are a lot of benefits and disadvantage to any decision
Malashaan Despite the comments of some here, I think the overall results of the last term show that Mouse and I made good judgments in this area, and will continue to do so if elected. Funny that you and Rach have liked to criticize my leadership but recruitment is up, retention is up, activity is up, political engagement is up, and we've strenghtened relations with a number of other regions, including The South Pacific and the Allied Repub
Malashaan (done)
Writinglegend CalvinCoolidge
CalvinCoolidge My philosophy is to what is best for the region, of course, and I feel the best way to do that is to keep people informed, on pretty much all that we do (sensitive stuff is a separate issue, although that would be included in some way). A lot of government work is done through collaboration with many people, and that is something that all of us need to work on. If elected, I will carry out both of these goals: communication a
CalvinCoolidge *to do
Writinglegend (You were cut off at "communication a")
CalvinCoolidge (*communication and collaboration, to get the job done. (Done))
Writinglegend Any rebuttals?
Writinglegend I wouldn't think they're needed here.....
Writinglegend Rach is back, so I'll let her answer the question.
Rach My philosophy is pretty much in line with that of Kaizen which is a philosophy of continuos improvement and self-examination. My creativity and experience allows me to constantly make each position better and improve our record on a number of fields. For me, there is no perfection only striving towards that. I believe that cabinet is a team and that is must
Rach function well as a unit. Lastly, I place a great deal of importance on leadership and believe that we should always hold ourselves most accountable for actions. It is as the Greeks say which is that the wise ruler is he who comes up with the best plan for success. It is the leader who knows what will succeed and what won't succeed.
Rach Thus, I always look at the leadership to lead and I think it is disingenuous when the citizenry are blamed since it is the leaderships responsibility to put in play the policies that will lead to success.
Rach (done)
Writinglegend Alright. Any rebuttals?
Writinglegend If not, we can move on to our last question
CalvinCoolidge I'm good to move on.
Writinglegend Everyone else good to move on?
Rach yes
Rach I need to leave soon
Malashaan Yeah, I need to run in 2 mionutes anyway
Writinglegend As our final question, why should voters vote for your ticket come voting day? Why should they not vote for any of the other tickets?
Writinglegend Rach-Mala-Cal
Rach Voters should vote for our ticket if they wish to see the greatest improvement and improved accountability as well as visibility. Everything we promised we can do, and we won't blame the populace if policies do not succeed. Rather we believe that we can always get things to work and if they do not work then they were poor policies to begin with as policies
Rach should always be geared towards the populace.
Rach As well, some people mention my "assets" which might be a bonus I guess....
Rach (done)
CalvinCoolidge Voters should vote for our ticket because we are changing the status quo, despite the somehow "conservative" nature of our platform, which proposes a lot of change in the CSO, and other areas. Further,
CalvinCoolidge we promise to be more open with this region about what we are up to, and we promise to try our hardest to improve the areas that need improving. The previous term did a lot right, and we can build on that, to make it a lot better, hopefully. (Done)
Writinglegend Malashaan
Malashaan The region has seen a lot of success this term, and some areas still need further development. I believe that Mouse will continue to improve the region and I am well placed to asist her, having been involved in every ministry this term.
Malashaan (done - and got to run - bye all)
CalvinCoolidge All right, good talk, people.
CalvinCoolidge Very exciting stuff.
Writinglegend Thank you guys for coming. Expect this to be in the EBC shortly.
