[Arnhelm Alt] Opinion: Kaz Must Go as DEIA

Do you even know if there are any EIA staff at the moment?
Tbf does anyone outside of the President and Director have access to that information?


I generally disagree with the McEntire on removing and/or not renominating Kazaman. I feel like McEntire’s opinions are very unfounded and misdirected.

I do think there is validity in saying that there is a concerning trend of enhancing the executive’s power as kneejerk reactions to events, such as EO101, the Proscription Amendment, etc. That’s the type of things I see as immediately worrying, not the conduct or competence of Kazaman.
 
It would be one thing if Kazaman acted in bad faith and tried to be shady about it, but from what I can see, he thought what he did was right. He consulted the president at the time about it before doing so under his interpretation of the governing statute. His interpretation was not so ludicrous if one if making the interpretation based on the Maintainence Clause– the Court simply disagreed with his interpretation after deeper analysis of the agency’s history. The political bodies are now trying to hammer the best way forward, as the Court intended.

Past presidents and other officials have misinterpreted the law but were not removed. We recently had a Senator apply for a legal proceeding without the backing of the Senate as a body as the statute required, but they were not removed. Although the Court disagreed with his interpretation, Kazaman tried to fulfill his duties in the way he thought he could to protect regional security. I don’t think that’s a removable offense, personally.

I don’t think he made the decision he made lightly. Kazaman has been an incredibly steadfast public servant and has been cooperative with the current and past Senates even if he disagrees with the direction things were going. It’s my view that his deference to the political bodies overall even while he believes in a stronger executive is admirable, and not something we would see often in other regions under similar circumstances.

The best thing for the region would be to make the law more clear to protect potentially damaging information while preserving the rights of citizens. Which is being done by the appropriate folks. Not removing folks for an error made in good faith and that anyone could have made.
 
I don't believe Kazaman acted in bad faith or with ill-intent. I realise though, as arguably the aggrieved party in that instance, why you may feel differently.

I don't see the Court's decision in this matter as an indictment of Kazaman, but more an air raid siren that there's a gap in our laws that could lead to these sorts of issues recurring, which means there is a need for the Senate to step in and try and properly sort it.

Kazaman is guilty only of doing his job and trying to protect the Republic with the laws he had at his disposal. It isn't his fault if the laws leave him in a crap position.

The Court case issues aside though, I think it is incredibly bad form to again bring up the whole TRR issue and try and lay that at one person's feet. Not only has this topic been done to death (and then some), but it has also been subject to some of the most wild, irresponsible, and demeaning takes and accusations that I've ever heard in my NS career. Frankly, I'm tired of us fighting about the same thing ad aeternum, especially with the absolute lack of nuance exhibited here. Kaz deserve better and so does Euro in general.
 
I think your position would have been better served by addressing the entire scope of the issue rather than targeting one person and then stating that they should depart from a position they have performed well in. From reading the article, it seems you have more issues with how the Government handles the situation, rather than the Office of EIA specifically.

We should move away from these personal attacks. Policies, decisions, etc., can be criticized without targeting a specific person.
 
I think the Court's decision should result in stronger Senate oversight, be that questioning now or far more in-depth questioning at the next re-nomination period. Regardless of if we think Kazaman acted in good faith or not, the Court did rule his actions unlawful and there should be some form of consequences for that. I definitely do not think the consequences for that should be removal from office however. I hope to see the Senate preform its role now, through both the legislative process updating our laws where necessary and in its oversight role.
 
I think the Court's decision should result in stronger Senate oversight, be that questioning now or far more in-depth questioning at the next re-nomination period. Regardless of if we think Kazaman acted in good faith or not, the Court did rule his actions unlawful and there should be some form of consequences for that. I definitely do not think the consequences for that should be removal from office however. I hope to see the Senate preform its role now, through both the legislative process updating our laws where necessary and in its oversight role.
There is now a senate subforum accessible only to the President, DEIA, and Senators that might serve well as a preliminary hearing chamber in the future.

Concluded hearings will be sent to EAAC Archives so it could be a good place for Senators to get more substantial information. (Ftr, the existence of this sub forum is already disclosed under Protected Areas Disclosure)
 
It was a good and significant court decision, and we should ensure that we don't come into such a situation again. But Kazaman stepping down does precisely nothing to achieve that, in fact it might lower our intelligence and security capability. It's not like we're here because Kazaman is personally maleficent.

Ultimately, the potential for conflict is between the responsibility and duties of the Director of the Europeian Intelligence Agency, whoever that may be, and the rights we afford our citizens. To ease it, we should codify means for the DEIA to act while respecting the rights of our citizens. I'm glad that the Senate is already discussing how to do this.
 
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So, I don't want to respond to every single point brought up in this thread, because that would take too much time and I've already given my opinion. But I do want to respond to a few things, because I feel it's important.
Firstly, you say he should bear full responsibility for the dispute with The Rejected Realms. You are putting that whole brouhaha — the entire kitchen sink, kitchen, and two-car garage on Kazaman's back. This is grossly unfair, and absurd. There were countless more policymakers involved in that instances then Kazaman. Even if Kazaman was the individual who passed the discovered intelligence onto President Rand (and I am not 100% he was) you would hold him fully responsible for every twist and turn that happened afterwards? In one hand, you credit him for bringing the matter to a satisfactory end — a matter that was demonstrably not solely of his own creation — but in the other hand you say that calls for removal from office.
I was not trying to lay the entire dispute at Kaz's feet, but my point is that the main thing that we had to apologize to our ally for was "mishandling of sensitive information." As the top advisor on the handling of sensitive information, I do think that falls at the DEIA's feet.

You say that actions have consequences. Yes, it's true. And since you've taken an increasingly aggressive, go-it-alone approach to Europeian politics you have been subject to a recall petition, avoided recall by a hair, defeated in your re-election efforts, and absolutely shellacked in a Presidential bid. Actions have consequences, indeed.
Just because I'm standing alone doesn't inherently mean I'm wrong. Yes, you're right, the last few months have not been good for me. But I have continued to "double down" because I don't think I'm wrong, and I think there's an important point to be made here about not being completely deferential to the foreign policy establishment. I have striven to make this point without regard to how it would affect my personal political prospects, because the truth is I'm old and I don't care anymore.

The "old McEntire" used to back down to avoid the heat or be strategic or win elections or whatever. But here's the thing I've learned about losing elections: you wind up surviving! And I genuinely think that our region is too deferential to our Executive and foreign affairs establishment. I'm going to fight for outcomes that are not that way. And I don't care how many people tell me I'm being "irresponsible" or some such nonsense, I disagree. And I don't have to agree, I still get to be a citizen and publish as many poorly-received op-eds as I want. I don't need off-ramps or words of support, you can keep those to yourself, I'm a big girl.

I started this paper so that I could give a more unvarnished version of my own opinions and advance my own views of where I want to see Europeia go. And that's what you're getting, and that's what you're going to keep getting.

And furthermore, I do think there's a massive double standard at play here. While I repeat that I do not have personal animus for Kazaman, I can accept that maybe this issue is personal in terms of me feeling offended by the double standard. If I had been found to have broken the law in my capacity as a Senator, I do not think that people would have said it was a problem with the law, I think that I would've been turfed the f*ck out.

People are willing to give Kaz so much of the benefit of the doubt because he was "protecting classified information," when it's an equally valid read of the situation to say that while he was engaged in an interregional conflict to protect Europeian interests, he was also in a domestic conflict with a Senator to protect the prerogative of the EIA and the Executive. He fought aggressively to protect those prerogatives, just as aggressively as I did to protect the Senate's. And in fighting so aggressively, he broke the law and violated my constitutional right to free speech, something that he has still not acknowledged or apologized for.

But I'm the one who's been castigated for being aggressive, who's faced political consequences, who's been called a liar and an opportunist and everything short of a traitor. You can ask anyone who's ever gotten slightly crosswise with the DEIA or foreign policy establishment, it is not fun. So yes, I'm advocating for consequences for the DEIA's actions, in part because I've had to face consequences for my own aggressive advocacy, and no one gave me any brownie points for having "good-faith."

Speaking candidly, I think that the only groups that are remotely qualified to have a valuable opinion on the DEIA are former presidents and NES.
Thank you, upc, for providing what I see as a balanced view, even though you think I'm wrong in this instance. I do want to push back on this one quoted section above, though. I think the view you've espoused here is pervasive, and I also think it's incredibly limiting. The EIA should still be accountable to democratic governance, and anyone is entitled to their opinion on how it operates.
 
Just because I'm standing alone doesn't inherently mean I'm wrong. Yes, you're right, the last few months have not been good for me. But I have continued to "double down" because I don't think I'm wrong, and I think there's an important point to be made here about not being completely deferential to the foreign policy establishment. I have striven to make this point without regard to how it would affect my personal political prospects, because the truth is I'm old and I don't care anymore.

The "old McEntire" used to back down to avoid the heat or be strategic or win elections or whatever. But here's the thing I've learned about losing elections: you wind up surviving! And I genuinely think that our region is too deferential to our Executive and foreign affairs establishment. I'm going to fight for outcomes that are not that way. And I don't care how many people tell me I'm being "irresponsible" or some such nonsense, I disagree. And I don't have to agree, I still get to be a citizen and publish as many poorly-received op-eds as I want. I don't need off-ramps or words of support, you can keep those to yourself, I'm a big girl.
I think that loyal opposition and dissent are important, but I believe the thing that rubs most people the wrong way is the way in which you express your views. Years from now, people aren't going to remember what you said or what you stood for, they're going to remember how you made them feel.
 
Just because I'm standing alone doesn't inherently mean I'm wrong. Yes, you're right, the last few months have not been good for me. But I have continued to "double down" because I don't think I'm wrong, and I think there's an important point to be made here about not being completely deferential to the foreign policy establishment. I have striven to make this point without regard to how it would affect my personal political prospects, because the truth is I'm old and I don't care anymore.

The "old McEntire" used to back down to avoid the heat or be strategic or win elections or whatever. But here's the thing I've learned about losing elections: you wind up surviving! And I genuinely think that our region is too deferential to our Executive and foreign affairs establishment. I'm going to fight for outcomes that are not that way. And I don't care how many people tell me I'm being "irresponsible" or some such nonsense, I disagree. And I don't have to agree, I still get to be a citizen and publish as many poorly-received op-eds as I want. I don't need off-ramps or words of support, you can keep those to yourself, I'm a big girl.
I think that loyal opposition and dissent are important, but I believe the thing that rubs most people the wrong way is the way in which you express your views. Years from now, people aren't going to remember what you said or what you stood for, they're going to remember how you made them feel.
I get that, and that's fine, but I've been in this region for nearly 14 years and I have frequently been a dissenter. I have tried a lot of different ways to say things, to cajole, to try and nibble around the margins and not offend, and they've never worked. So I don't buy into the idea that if I just said my opinions differently, people would respect them more.

I think, particularly when it comes to FA and the powers of the Executive, many people in this region have a knee-jerk reaction to protect the existing order. That's not new, it also has real life analogs. Particularly in times of conflict or strife, people tend to rally around the flag. Look at the way that Vietnam War dissenters in the US were treated at the time, versus how they're viewed in historical context.

So now I've landed on just saying my actual opinion and leaving people to deal with their feelings about that on their own. Even in this article, I went out of my way to praise Kazaman, even as I advocate for him to leave his position over the two high-profile mistakes he's made in the last few months. It doesn't seem to make much difference how much cheese I wrap the pill in (to use a dog metaphor), because I believe there's a core disagreement here about how much our foreign affairs/regional security apparatus should be subject to democratic controls and norms.

And that's fine! People who think that the official EIA/Executive position should be the final/only word on matters of regional security have every right to hold that opinion, even if I think it's boot-licking. But I wish that the hawks in the room would own that perspective more and be honest about their own biases.
 
Thank you, upc, for providing what I see as a balanced view, even though you think I'm wrong in this instance. I do want to push back on this one quoted section above, though. I think the view you've espoused here is pervasive, and I also think it's incredibly limiting. The EIA should still be accountable to democratic governance, and anyone is entitled to their opinion on how it operates.
Sure, everyone is entitled to have an opinion. But not everyone is qualified to have an informed opinion. And we fall into the latter camp here!

If Lloen, Rand, PA, any recent president really, came out and sided with you, I think that your argument would be more weighty. But again, they are all either not participating in this debate, or they have come out in opposition to you.
 
But I'm the one who's been castigated for being aggressive, who's faced political consequences, who's been called a liar and an opportunist and everything short of a traitor. You can ask anyone who's ever gotten slightly crosswise with the DEIA or foreign policy establishment, it is not fun. So yes, I'm advocating for consequences for the DEIA's actions, in part because I've had to face consequences for my own aggressive advocacy, and no one gave me any brownie points for having "good-faith."
Likewise, I'm not going to respond to you line-by-line because we're going in circles.

But I do want to respond to this.

The DEIA and EIA have faced tremendous public questioning, criticism, and speculation, over the years. And not easy to answer nuts-and-bolts questions, but existential questions demanding that both entities justify their existence and that the office-holders justify their work to the Senate and the people.

In the rare moments when the EIA has provided information that resulted in action, we've seen tremendous domestic scandals that ultimately involve public attacks, Senate committees, weeks-long question and answer sessions, reports, and on and on.

Both North East Somerset and Kazaman have faced these moments of intense public scrutiny. They have faced them during Senate confirmations, investigations, and in the public square. I would imagine many of those moments also weren't fun! In fact, one of those moments has actually continued for months, taking us to this very article.

So...the idea that you're facing some heightened level of scrutiny, I don't think is fair. I don't think the EIA is given anything resembling a free pass, and frankly, I doubt that even if there were people with the relevant skills, they would even be too keen to take the gig given how much scrutiny and criticism there is!
 
He fought aggressively to protect those prerogatives, just as aggressively as I did to protect the Senate's
wrong (emphasis mine)

Broadly, ever since we set our sights on Frontier, moreso since it happened, there's been a shift to deferring power to the Executive among some citizens, and I did feel some crossed a line at the start of your "debate" with the Executive, but at a certain point this became negligible compared to the realistic issue of you just saying whatever regardless of any counterargument.
 
Just because I'm standing alone doesn't inherently mean I'm wrong. Yes, you're right, the last few months have not been good for me. But I have continued to "double down" because I don't think I'm wrong, and I think there's an important point to be made here about not being completely deferential to the foreign policy establishment. I have striven to make this point without regard to how it would affect my personal political prospects, because the truth is I'm old and I don't care anymore.

The "old McEntire" used to back down to avoid the heat or be strategic or win elections or whatever. But here's the thing I've learned about losing elections: you wind up surviving! And I genuinely think that our region is too deferential to our Executive and foreign affairs establishment. I'm going to fight for outcomes that are not that way. And I don't care how many people tell me I'm being "irresponsible" or some such nonsense, I disagree. And I don't have to agree, I still get to be a citizen and publish as many poorly-received op-eds as I want. I don't need off-ramps or words of support, you can keep those to yourself, I'm a big girl.
I think that loyal opposition and dissent are important, but I believe the thing that rubs most people the wrong way is the way in which you express your views. Years from now, people aren't going to remember what you said or what you stood for, they're going to remember how you made them feel.
I’m going to back up McEntire on this one point, because honestly this part isn’t just a McEntire issue. Had you been around for the initial kerfluffle that this stemmed from, you would have seen massive pile ons on McEntire basically accusing her of treason.

In this instance I don’t agree with McEntire’s viewpoint, but I will say your point is a two way, and everyone would do well to stay away from inflammatory language (including myself to be fair).
 
I’m going to back up McEntire on this one point, because honestly this part isn’t just a McEntire issue. Had you been around for the initial kerfluffle that this stemmed from, you would have seen massive pile ons on McEntire basically accusing her of treason.

In this instance I don’t agree with McEntire’s viewpoint, but I will say your point is a two way, and everyone would do well to stay away from inflammatory language (including myself to be fair).
I don't think that I was being inflammatory. If I was, please point out to me what was inflammatory, so that I can fix it. You're right, I wasn't here for what happened and even though I heard some small things about it, I don't know much and I don't care to look back on it either. I have seen my fair share of pile-ons in Europeia, it's one of the reasons I left ages ago. I also don't think I am holding McEntire to standards I don't hold anyone else to.
 
I'd suggest we look at it this way: the Pland administration (Pland, Fori, Kaz, Lloen) could have criminally charged you, Mac, for this leak. Instead, they temporarily removed a link from one of your posts.

While the Court found this action to be unlawful, it still was the narrowest possible restriction of your rights that the government could have designed. Kaz (and the other members of the Pland administration) were not on an authoritarian rampage, and the proof is in the fact that stronger action was available but not taken.

To me, this tirade feels like filing a complaint against an officer for having your car towed (immediate remediation) when they could've charged you with DUI (long-lasting retribution). Sure, it turns out Kaz didn't technically have the authority to tow your car, but the administration did the best they could to avoid putting you under felony charges. The action they chose turned out to be illegal, but it was still the lesser of two evils, so to speak. That's why nobody is freaking out that Kaz "broke the law." The law authorized greater violence, so to speak, but the administration did their best to resolve this amicably.

This is all my personal opinion. Not speaking as Kaz's counsel or as a member of the Cabinet.
 
I’m going to back up McEntire on this one point, because honestly this part isn’t just a McEntire issue. Had you been around for the initial kerfluffle that this stemmed from, you would have seen massive pile ons on McEntire basically accusing her of treason.

In this instance I don’t agree with McEntire’s viewpoint, but I will say your point is a two way, and everyone would do well to stay away from inflammatory language (including myself to be fair).
I don't think that I was being inflammatory. If I was, please point out to me what was inflammatory, so that I can fix it. You're right, I wasn't here for what happened and even though I heard some small things about it, I don't know much and I don't care to look back on it either. I have seen my fair share of pile-ons in Europeia, it's one of the reasons I left ages ago. I also don't think I am holding McEntire to standards I don't hold anyone else to.
You weren’t being inflammatory, I’m just remarking that I’ve seen it from the community towards McEntire. In my mind it’s a bit difficult to call someone a traitor and disloyal and a who litany of other things and then chastise them for not necessarily wanting to respond in good faith. We gotta remember the human aspect to the game.
 
I'd suggest we look at it this way: the Pland administration (Pland, Fori, Kaz, Lloen) could have criminally charged you, Mac, for this leak. Instead, they temporarily removed a link from one of your posts.

While the Court found this action to be unlawful, it still was the narrowest possible restriction of your rights that the government could have designed. Kaz (and the other members of the Pland administration) were not on an authoritarian rampage, and the proof is in the fact that stronger action was available but not taken.

To me, this tirade feels like filing a complaint against an officer for having your car towed (immediate remediation) when they could've charged you with DUI (long-lasting retribution). Sure, it turns out Kaz didn't technically have the authority to tow your car, but the administration did the best they could to avoid putting you under felony charges. The action they chose turned out to be illegal, but it was still the lesser of two evils, so to speak. That's why nobody is freaking out that Kaz "broke the law." The law authorized greater violence, so to speak, but the administration did their best to resolve this amicably.

This is all my personal opinion. Not speaking as Kaz's counsel or as a member of the Cabinet.
This makes no sense. Kaz did refer me to the AG for criminal charges. You're referring to the collective actions of the administration, but Kaz did intend for me to face criminal charges in this matter.

And besides, I didn't break the law. I didn't leak anything. Maybe I'll release a transcript of the radio show just so people can see that there was nothing untoward.
 
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