Should We Trust the Polls?

Lloenflys

"Certainty is an illusion ..."
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Should we trust the polls? (Warning: This is a long discussion piece and I don't have time to edit it now so - I'm sure there are typos, logical breaks, and generally odd bits in there. You know, like most of my posts. Proceed at your own risk!).

If you're anything like me, 16 days out of this thing I'm looking for reassurance that the 2020 elections are really going like the I think they're going. While a month ago I was nervous but optimistic, I've become more confident as the month has gone on and every major event ends with Trump failing to capitalize on his opportunities and the polls remaining very stable. Senate races continue to move in Democrats favor, and overall the House continues to see suburban Republicans pushed into ever more competitive races. Today, in other words, I'm pretty confident that Dems will win the White House, the Senate, and add seats in the House. Yes, I know, some of you will curse me for saying this out loud - but you're looking at a guy who's going to get put under to get a wisdom tooth removed on Friday the 13th. I don't believe in curses.

Of course, not everyone agrees with this view. You can find any number of rosy Trump scenarios on sites like Real Clear Politics. Typically these articles point to several things: (1) polling inaccuracies in 2016 and 2018 ; (2) greater enthusiasms at rallies for Trump than Biden; (3) a continued insistance of the existance of "Shy Trump" voters; and (4) lots and lots of anecdotal feedback.

I'm mostly interested in #1 because the rest of the beliefs are just that - beliefs - and people hold them simply because they are hoping their guy is ahead. I'm not going to do a scientific deep dive in the polling - I'm not qualified to do that, for one thing, and for another lots of other people have done that. Instead, I'm just going to give my gut feel on this issue and how I read the situation as someone who has closely followed polls and elections since I was about 12 years old.

First, I believe strongly in poll aggregation. It tends to iron out the wrinkles in individual pollsters sampling, modelling, and weighting methodologies. If you look at the averages, it is very clear that Joe Biden is winning the race. If you assign all electoral votes to the current leaders in the RCP average, Biden would win 357-181. That's a pretty substantial victory and is the first reason why I am pretty comfortable that this shows something realistic about the race. Look at the battleground states that the RCP currently has going for Biden vs. going for Trump:

For Biden: NV, AZ, FL, GA, NC, WI, MI, PA, NH, IA, NE-2, ME-2

For Trump: OH, TX

First, the fact that states like Texas and Georgia are on this list (and Georgia is currently polling blue!) while Minnesota is not (my threshold is a 5 point split in the polling) says a great deal. So does the fact that the battlegrounds are all going in the same direction. The sheer volume, coupled with the locations this race is being fought out (and just look at where the campaigns are spending money and sending candidates and you will see that this list is indeed the list of competitive locations) give me a great deal of confidence. Biden could lose a great deal of the states on the list above and still be fine.

The most likely pro-Trump scenario, for instance, would see him winning the southern trio of Florida, Georgia, and North Carolina (which is a realistic possibility), as well as winning in Arizona. If he does that and also takes Wisconsin and Iowa suddenly things would be very very close ... but if Biden wins Omaha (Omaha? Yes Omaha!) the race finishes 270-268.

Bottom line, pollsters can be wrong - but I believe they've adjusted their models since 2016 and that *all* of the pollsters aren't all going to be quite this wrong - it would be historically bad, far worse than any suggested polling errors from 2016 and 2018.

Now, is it possible the world just looks completely different from the way the vast majority of these pollsters see it? One pollster is betting yes - the Trafalgar Group. This pollster is notable on RCP for essentially always being contrary. Everyone else shows Biden up 5-6 in a state, Trafalgar will show Trump up 1-2. It'd be easy to dismiss them as gadflys, like the awful Rasmussen Reports polls are, but Trafalgar actually has a pretty solid history in 2016 and 2018.

In some sense, they're worth watching. If we wake up on November 4 (or whenever the race is decided) and Donald Trump was re-elected, then the Trafalgar Group will probably succeed in toppling the polling industry entirely. I'm skeptical of them for several reasons, however.

First, they bill themselves as disruptors. Lots of people like disruptors, but that's the problem. Being a disruptor is how you make yourself known and how you make lots of money. When you start calling yourself a disruptor, it suggests you're a bit cocky and think you've hit on something that no one else that does something for a living has ever thought of before. Is it possible? Sure. It's also possible that they've gotten lucky. A high success rate over two cycles when you don't do a lot of polls is relatively easy to attain through luck. If they do it again this year it starts to look real.

Second, I've listened to Trafalgar's owner discuss their methodology. Some of the stuff they do is very smart, but an awful lot of it sounds like attempts to take anecdotal evidence and shove it into numerical form. This makes me think their modeling shows what they want it to show. That means their modeling is heavily susceptible to their biases. That may have played in their favor in 2016, but I suspect it is going to play against them in 2020.

The bottom line - I think the race is probably pretty close to what we think it is, but what really matters is not going to be the polls but who actually shows up to vote. I'm thrilled with the early voting numbers we've seen so far and believe the electorate is shaping up to look like what it needs to look like to secure a Biden win. We'll find out in a couple of weeks.
 
One should always approach polls with caution, trusting them blindly is what got us into this mess in the first place.

That being said, the overall excitement about this electoral season lends to Biden's favor, as Democrats tend to perform better with higher vote turnout. As a matter of fact, the excitement is so palpable that my college hosted a voter registration table for people to get an absentee ballot and vote.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that it's Biden's to lose, we're dealing with two candidates that aren't exactly exciting to either party. It's really a matter of who the country doesn't want and if people are desperate enough to vote for the other person to keep them out.
 
RCP is right-wing propaganda, disguised as a poll aggregator.

"Why, yes, Trafalgar and Rasmussen are just as equal and valid as Marist, ABC, or Fox News. Let's give them all equal weight!"
 
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In some sense, they're worth watching. If we wake up on November 4 (or whenever the race is decided) and Donald Trump was re-elected, then the Trafalgar Group will probably succeed in toppling the polling industry entirely. I'm skeptical of them for several reasons, however.

First, they bill themselves as disruptors. Lots of people like disruptors, but that's the problem. Being a disruptor is how you make yourself known and how you make lots of money. When you start calling yourself a disruptor, it suggests you're a bit cocky and think you've hit on something that no one else that does something for a living has ever thought of before.
It's "Unskew The Polls" all over again.
 
RCP is right-wing propaganda, disguised as a poll aggregator.

"Why, yes, Trafalgar and Rasmussen are just as equal and valid as Marist, ABC, or Fox News. Let's give them all equal weight!"

This is actually why I use RCP. If RCP is showing the numbers I want, I'm generally pretty comfortable with where the race stands. Fivethirtyeight would be more trustworthy more than likely, but by using RCP I'm building in the bias as a defensive measure lol
 
Trafalgar is actually hilariously bad because they have straight up admitted they make up some portion of their numbers to "unskew it"
 
The things I don't like in this particular election is the amount of vote by mail we have coming in and all the steps being taken, and enforced, to invalidate or make more difficult those votes. The thing I do like is the record numbers we have and the people who feel they HAVE to vote (a feeling everyone should have every time imo). We'll see which of those two win out in the end.

I am hoping the election isn't close, but no matter what, they'll be some drama....
 
RCP is right-wing propaganda, disguised as a poll aggregator.

"Why, yes, Trafalgar and Rasmussen are just as equal and valid as Marist, ABC, or Fox News. Let's give them all equal weight!"

This is actually why I use RCP. If RCP is showing the numbers I want, I'm generally pretty comfortable with where the race stands. Fivethirtyeight would be more trustworthy more than likely, but by using RCP I'm building in the bias as a defensive measure lol
Also, take note -- when the state races started going +6 through +8 Biden, they widened their "toss up" category to keep from turning states blue.

They now have like a third of the nation in the "toss-up" category in order to avoid showing that Biden has a "leaning" lock on 270+ EC votes.

-_-

RCP also messes around with the timeframe for how far out polls are still counted. In some races, they have a poll from 6 months ago still weighting the same as a poll from a week ago.
 
RCP be like "every state is a tossup, so Biden can't win"
 
The thing is, this question is pointless. If your candidate is up in the polls and you trust the polls, does that mean you shouldnt vote? Of course not. And if your candidate is down in the polls and you trust the polls, does that mean you shouldnt bother? Of course not.

Whether you trust the polls or not, there is only one responsible action to take come an election: vote.
 
The thing is, this question is pointless. If your candidate is up in the polls and you trust the polls, does that mean you shouldnt vote? Of course not. And if your candidate is down in the polls and you trust the polls, does that mean you shouldnt bother? Of course not.

Whether you trust the polls or not, there is only one responsible action to take come an election: vote.
I concur, but Americans think differently. Many won't vote because of polls or believing their vote doesn't matter.
 
The thing is, this question is pointless. If your candidate is up in the polls and you trust the polls, does that mean you shouldnt vote? Of course not. And if your candidate is down in the polls and you trust the polls, does that mean you shouldnt bother? Of course not.

Whether you trust the polls or not, there is only one responsible action to take come an election: vote.
I concur, but Americans think differently. Many won't vote because of polls or believing their vote doesn't matter.
I mean *technically* for a lot of Americans their vote effectively does not matter. If I were to write in Mickey Mouse in my state for example (+20 Blue State) it would have just as much impact as if I voted for either one of the Presidential nominees. Obviously this doesn’t apply for the local elections but basically voting in any national election in a deep red or deep blue state is low key kinda pointless.
 
Yeah, my state is now reliably red, but I vote anyway.
 
Maybe your vote in your state doesnt matter but who cares. Dont look at it as your vote mattering. Look at it as a license. A license you have to continually renew. You didnt vote? You dont get to bitch about whatever the government did that you dont like. After all, you didnt even do the most basic thing you can do in a democracy. Voting is renewing your license for the next 4 years to get to bitch about the President. Trump wins? This is what I voted against! Biden wins and does something you dont like? This isnt what I voted for!

But if you didnt vote then you dont get to do that. Or at least we will all judge you when you try to anyways.


Edit: And fwiw, the way you change your state from a +20 red state to a purple state or keep a +20 blue state blue is to vote. If every republican in the bluest state decided its up for grabs and every democrat in that state decided not to vote because why bother its safe after all, then that state goes red and suddenly bad shit happens.
 
One thing that I think gets left out of the conversation because of how broken our brains have been by 2016 is that polling errors can help either candidate, not just one. We're so scared of 2016 repeating that people forget not only could Biden do three points worse, he can do three points better, too; or maybe Trump does two points better in Wisconsin but Biden does four points better in Texas.

The other thing is that compared to 2016 there are way less undecided and 3rd party voters -- Biden is getting 49-50-51 percents a lot more often and a lot more regularly in states than Clinton did. There's way more stability in this race than in 2016.

That said, you should vote regardless of where you live. I think the "My Vote Doesn't Matter Because I Live In a Blue/Red State", while understandably frustrating, is a little lazy. Your vote always matters, even if people don't think it does. Maybe this election it won't be close in your State, but next election it will.
 
I also want to say that elections aren’t just about congress and presidential candidates, it is also about local elections and levies/issues. I voted recently and yeah, Joe Biden was on there, but I was also voting for county prosecutor, sheriff, and a bajillion judge seats who will all collectively make a big impact on our local judicial system. If you don’t want to turn out purely just to vote for a congressional candidate or president, at least vote for your local representatives and issues.
 
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