A Panel on Disabilities & NS
A Project Keller Article
Transcribed by Ervald
For this article for Project Keller, this is a transcription of the first panel that was held as part of the NS Disability Symposium. The topic of the panel was on "How Disabilities Impact Experiences on NS" and the speakers were yours truly, Jade, and Maddie (Chacapoya). It was moderated by Salem. This transcription received very few edits in order to preserve the spirit of the conversation.
Salem: Alrighty hihi. Today’s panel will be about disabilities and how they may impact someone’s experience on NationStates. Some of the topics that we’ll be discussing will be about perception of our disabilities in the game, any challenges that may be faced with NationStates over these disabilities, and just the general experiences of being a disabled player. To start us off, we’ll do some introductions. We have some lovely folks on the panel today and I’d like to start off with everyone giving themselves a little introduction about who they are on NationStates, what disabilities they have (to the extent of what is comfortable to share), and then their favorite disabled fictional character or celebrity is and why :]
Ervald: Hey, folks. I am Ervald, President of Europeia who scheduled this symposium. Been playing the game since 2015 and have been in Europeia since then. I am hearing impaired (legally deaf) and I wear hearing aids. Considered moderate-severe, I do not know ASL. My favorited disabled celebrity would be Michael J. Fox, I have always enjoyed his acting and appreciate his advocacy for Parkinson's, particularly as he has always had a good sense of humor about it.
Jade: Hello, everyone! I'm very new to NS, but my short time here has been wonderful and I've gotten involved in the Europeian ministries of Communications, Foreign Affairs, and Radio. I have autism, ADHD, anxiety, and a few other mental sillies that probably won't come up but I hope to provide a kind of interesting perspective here! My favorite disabled fictional character is probably Kaz from Six of Crows, who uses a cane and has PTSD (which also causes his haphophobia, or fear of touching others), neither of which define him or are overlooked. The author doesn't make him seem useless or broken because of his disabilities (in fact, he can be pretty brutal at some times and absolutely compelling and sweet at others and he's a brilliant strategist through it all) but also doesn't detract from them by making it seem like more of a design quirk than a part of his character. It has its place throughout the story while not being the defining trait of his personality or character arc, and I find that really admirable! Oh and my favorite disabled semi-celebrity is Scott Sava, he's an amazing autistic artist and generally sweet and insightful person
Ervald: Kaz is a fantastic character, didn’t even think of him as disabled representation. That’s a great example
Maddie (Chacapoya): Hi! I’m Chacapoya, or Maddie. I’ve been active on NS since about 2019 as a member of Refugia, and an Independent R/Der since 2022. Physically, I have neurological damage from an accident in 2018, which manifests primarily with muscle weakness and degraded sensation and capabilities in my hands, as well as general nerve pain across my body. My favorite fictional disabled character is Baru Cormorant, from the Seth Dickenson series of books, who is a brilliantly written flawed hero who has a somewhat similar disability to my own, as well as suffering a similar dissociative disorder to my own. (edited)
Salem: Those are great examples of disabled characters or in Ervy's case a good advocate
So hopping into the first discussion then - Do you feel your disability impacts your ability to play the game? If so, do you generally feel that your disability is able to be reasonably navigated on NationStates? Are there any hurdles that you are still attempting to work through?Ervald: Yes and no. My disability is just hearing-related but a lot of big regions in NS, including Europeia, love using VC chats and radio shows. Until very recently, automatic closed-captioning was not a thing available for discord (and it is still only available on the browser version of discord). So there were a lot of social interactions I couldn't partake in, references made to those VCs, and a lot of fun interviews/debates on radio shows I genuinely could not listen to. So there have been multiple policy conversations that was related to a radio show that I had struggle navigating through so I often had to ask for context or hope someone would post a summary/transcription. With the updated closed captioning, I can listen to those shows and even be on them now but I am not used to doing so I still don't participate in VC chats/shows all that often. It doesn't work on mobile so it only works when I am at home at a laptop.
Jade: Like I said, I'm relatively new to the game, but I've seen a little bit of an effect already. I'm very apt to misinterpret things and I have a short attention span, which don't mix particularly well. I'm usually pretty good at taking a step back and taking a second look, but I've struggled slightly with that so far when it comes to reading a lot of the dispatches people put out. I also have noticed my anxiety getting the better of me a bit in my interactions with others and overthinking everything, so I generally feel a bit isolated and like I need to overthink every conversation I have (to no fault of anyone else! That's a general thing for me in "larger" spaces). I won't let any of that deter me, though, and I'm sure it'll only get better with time! (edited)
Maddie: Yes! As someone who is active in R/D on both sides, navigating my disability has been a major component of my experience on the site in recent years. My hands have a great deal of difficulty with repeated movements, with frequent spasms and locking up after too long performing the same action, such as refreshing a page for chasing. In fact, until the advent of SSE, I was not particularly capable of chasing to any degree of efficacy without significant pain in my hands, even when using specialized tools that let me refresh the page by clicking pedals with my feet. On the other side, tagging is somewhat easier due to the lesser focus on repetitive motion, though without the keybind and prep tools I have access to, I would not be able to participate. Beyond R/D, there is not overmuch that is too strenuous for me to engage with, though card farming and manual recruiting are two facets of the site that I cannot engage with, for similar reasons as above. Thankfully, recruitment bots have made recruitment possible for myself to participate in, though I am still working on solutions to the repetitive strain of card farming.
Salem: Ervald I hadn't given a thought before to how isolating it can be to not be able to participate in listening to Radio/or VCs before, but that makes sense it would be a challenge. Hopefully Discord rolls out closed captioning for mobile or the desktop app soon.
Ervald: Unfortunately folks have pointed it out before and Discord has never commented on it so I am left with the auto-transcription tool that comes with Chrome.
Salem: Also Maddie - we are kind of in a similar boat with R/D. When I first became a defender my hands worked fine and I was able to do chasing, but as my arthritis worsened I stopped trying to chase as I would maybe have just five minutes of it before it became too much of a pain. We'll touch on it a little more in a later question, but are you able to share the name of the tools you use to help you play R/D? (edited)
Maddie: I completely feel that, and I am sorry you've experienced it as well. I can sort of old school chase, or manual trigger, but for just a few minutes at a time. Reliant has been a boon to my ability to chase and to prep, though I am in the midst of working on my own bespoke chasing script. I cannot overstate how much easier prep is when I can simply spend a few minutes trading off fingers to click a prep button rather than moving my hands a great deal more and performing far more actions to manually input my nations and passwords, as I was doing for some time. The main actual R/D scripts I use nowadays are breeze++ or gauntlet, with a specific macro on my keyboard to open a bookmark that assigns a Regional Officer for tagging or detagging purposes. I am also in the process of starting to use Everblaze to trigger, which functions not dissimilarly to Buzzy Bee from Lily, and eases my tagging a great deal.
Salem: You'll definitely have to let me know how developing a chasing script goes for you :]
Maddie: I will do so! I always want more folks to be able to participate.
Salem: Given we have similar issues, I'm hopeful hah. Is there any more conversation we want to have on this question?
Ervald: I will like to respond to something Jade has said. I'll be honest, I have symptoms of...something. I have no idea if it is OCD or anxiety or whatever (I really should ask someone about it), but I overthink thing like crazy. And for a game like NS, particularly in a region that values politics like Europeia, that can be a lot of stress. I spent years actively avoiding running for politics because I was worried I would be secretly terrible or just give up at the first moment of stress. It took me a while to improve that personally but I also surrounded myself with folks in my cabinet, particularly my VP, who can tell me when I am overthinking something or I should just let someone else handle an issue. So, the key really is, not just try work on it yourself, but also make sure you got folks who can tell you that you are spiraling.
Jade: Thanks a ton for the advice, I'll keep that in mind! I've spiraled to my girlfriend about the two little blurbs I've written for the communications ministry so far, and that helped a lot to have her tell me I'm overthinking things. So, yeah, I can definitely see that working for me too and I'll keep that in mind! Thanks again!
Ervald: I also spiral to my girlfriend IRL too! You are not alone xD She heard too much about my stress about the presidential election.
Jade: And best of luck to you on figuring out what may be causing that for you
Lol, good to hear I'm not alone!Salem: Are there any misconceptions about your disability that have needed correction? How do you handle situations that may arise on NationStates from misconceptions about your disability?
Ervald: I don't really have "situations" all that often about my disability but I do think there can be misconceptions about my disability for sure. Folks not realizing that not all deaf people know ASL, not everyone with hearing aids necessarily want to have a cochlear implant, or just not realizing why my hearing loss may impact some other social behavior of mine. I think those can be easily handled, folks typically don't want to be an asshole to me about my disability on NS. But people have been assholes to me about it on other games in the past and I almost always quit. I feel like if there isn't a community or moderators to have your back, it just isn't worth the experience. Which sucks but that is how I have felt about it. There have been a few times when folks would question me for not participating in some debate that would be in a voice chat channel or why I wasn't knowledgeable on the radio ministry and in those times, I would just say nothing. But nowadays with more confidence, I am willing to speak out and to try genuinely understand how it works. I was on a presidential ticket many years ago and tried to pretend I knew radio and wouldn't admit I didn't know much. This time around, I asked other folks to explain to me about what was going on and being proactive even if I don't participate in radio stuff that much. There is nothing wrong with saying "hey, because of this disability, i can't do this thing or don't know how to. help me out."
Jade: The general one is just underestimating me and my abilities just because I'm autistic and have ADHD (assuming I can't be smart because I'm neurodivergent or assuming I'm not neurodivergent because I'm smart). The biggest specific misconception that comes to mind for me, though, is autism and empathy. It hasn't really been issue here at all and I doubt it will be, but I feel like mentioning it to anyone who may have this misconception: I've noticed that many people have the idea that autistic people struggle with empathy. We don't. We care so much for people, love hearing what they have to say, and help as much as we can, but our minds are working against us there. Not in the empathy department, in the social department. Of course there are people that are autistic that struggle with empathy, but it almost always comes from something else in conjunction with autism.
Maddie: My disability is a fairly invisible one, so folks are often surprised when I mention it to them, and some have refused to believe that I cannot do something so simple as open a crisp packet, for example. In regards to NS specifically, I have had to explain that clicking keys on a keyboard can, in fact, be difficult for someone to accomplish, specifically while arguing for lowest possible accessibility rungs, and whether it was worthwhile to keep a feature that made certain actions far easier for myself. I do second Ervald in regards to visibility. The more folks are aware of the people in their community who are disabled, and the accessibility concerns they have, the more the community work towards making folks feel included and supported. With the majority of issues I have had, most have resolved simply by explaining the limitations of my disability. And since moving forwards, I have been open about having one, I have been able to avoid more roadblocks in the future.
Salem: Ervald yapping this as a friend, but it is really wonderful to know that that you've gotten more comfortable over the last few years being able to just say "hey, [your text here]". It can be so uncomfortable and hard at first learning how to advocate for yourself, especially on a text game where disabilities aren't always the most visible or understood at first.
Ervald: I struggled with it in real life for a long time, I got better at it during college when I had some university professors who were confused by my accommodations. Being forced to advocate for myself in those situations helped advocate for myself on this game. Thanks for the kind words!
Jade: I was going to emphasize that too!! It's a really admirable thing that shows lots of maturity and self-understanding, and I think it's something that's really important for people (especially ones with disabilities, but really everyone) to develop. Especially because so many people seem to think and encourage the opposite
Salem: I was in the same boat with you this semester. I told my chemistry professor about my disability accommodations and asked what we could do for her class, and her response was "We'll figure it out the day of the exam" and I had to really step up and push to make sure my needs as a student were being recognized. "Probably the most useful thing I learned in her class was learning how to advocate for my disability"
Ervald: I had a terrible professor for two semesters that I learned almost nothing for except having to advocate for yourself lol.
Salem: Still a lesson! Just not one on the course syllabus
Maddie: It is also fantastic that you've worked to cultivate a space where you feel safe doing that, and especially leading by example with it. Genuinely fantastic for the community
Ervald: Thank you! I couldn't have done it without the support of my accommodations office at my university which....I have no idea if they are impacted by the anti-DEI bullshit or not smh.
Maddie: God I hope not
a good accommodations office is a rare treasureSalem: Do you find that NationStates (the website) or that regional forums are generally disability friendly? Are there any aides or software that you utilize to help participate in the game? We have kind of touched on this question a little bit already, but this is if there's anything else or any other specifics you think may be helpful to give :]
Ervald: A lot of my gripe with the game really is about voice chat which is more on the Discord side of things. I don't have any personal issues with the website or the regional forums but I am sure there are issues with them, particularly if you want the font to be bigger or have text to speech as someone have told me. Both the website and forums are old enough to the point that they weren't built with an "accessibility mode" like newer websites. I'll let other panelists speak more if they want.
Jade: The forum format is a bit daunting for me a lot of the time, but with how supportive everyone seems on the regional forums, it's certainly a bit easier! Outside of that, I keep Spotify and Cookie Clicker on in the background along with little things on my desk to fidget with so that I can enjoy myself without letting any bad thoughts kick in (edited)
Maddie: The core aspects of NS(issues, factbooks, rmb) and the forums are more disability friendly than the sort of aspects built onto it over the years, in my experience. I have been told, though it is not my own experience, that blind users often have a much harder time navigating the site than other sites, typically citing specific themes being unoptimized for screen readers. Recruitment, cards, minigames, and R/D are far less accessible for folks I would say, though user scripts have widened the accessibility somewhat on a physical level. Additionally, there are sometimes site updates, such as SSE, that can be tangentially helpful, though that is rarely the goal. And yeah, as stated above, I would not be able to do R/D or N-Day without the assistance of some very brilliant coders.
Salem: we do love our coders! Maybe at the end of this we could kinda compile a list of some of the scripts or tools we've used as a little handy dandy guide for disabled players if that doesn't already exist
Maddie: Oh that's a lovely idea! Ngl I use several of my R/D scripts even just casually navigating the site. XP
Salem: Since this isn't much of a discussion question and more of an information question, I am going to move us to the question that was given by the audience. I do want to first state that I would like to ask we avoid names or anything that could be too potentially direct or a callout, as ultimately the goal of this symposium is to grow as a community. The question is have you ever felt your disability has been held against you on NationStates? We did discuss earlier how we handle misconceptions about disabilities, so this question is building onto that with how you also navigated a disability being held against you whether intentionally or by accident. (edited)
Ervald: No, I have not. There were two times when someone asked me about my lack of involvement in the ministry of radio during a debate and both times, I believe the moderator/candidate just completely forgot I was hearing impaired. So, it has never been on purpose at the very least.
Jade: As far as I'm aware, outside of occasional anxiousness, not really.
Maddie: Yes. I have unfortunately had to have a couple conversations requesting individuals refrain from calling me a cripple. I have also previously navigated issues in separate communities regarding a different diagnosis of mine and how it would interact with moderation and interpersonal communication, though those were either resolved or obviated(I left).
Salem: I'm glad you haven't had those experiences Ervald or Jade, but that's really sad to hear you got called that even after multiple conversations Maddie. That's one of those things where it's a "never should have happened, but it did and one conversation about it should have been enough" :/ (edited)
Maddie: I appreciate that <3
Salem: Given your answer there, I look forward to your answer for our last question but I do want to give the other panelists a moment to respond if they want to.
Ervald: Only that I am sorry about what happened to you, Maddie. That’s some fucked up bullshit.
Jade: I'll just echo that. People are so fucked up to others for absolutely no reason and to call it outrageous would be an understatement (edited)
Salem: Alright, final question then that I have planned, though any questions still from the audience or any topics that the panel wants to touch on are still obviously welcomed. What steps can NationStates or regional administrators take to help ensure that disabled players are able to fully participate in their regions? What are some examples that admin teams on NS could look up to, or some areas that might need a bit more of a spotlight shined on them for improvement?
Ervald: I have seen examples of Discord bots out there that can supposedly do closed captioning for VC channels (or at least transcriptions) but I have no idea how effective they are or if they are safe to use. If it is a "yes" to both, discord-side communities should look into deploying them. But for the most part, I think NS regions have little capability in making their offsite forums more accessible. But I think the NationStates team could and should 100% make their website fully accessible because it is unacceptable we're expecting players to rely on scripts to just try navigate it
Jade: I think the only thing that comes to mind for me personally would be having an easily accessible "cheat sheet" for some common terms in NS and some different areas/ways to get involved. Europeia itself does a great job of this, but I felt kind of lost for the first day or two and honestly I only really stumbled my way into finding enjoyment out of it. Outside of that, generally making the website more accessible to people who struggle to access certain aspects of the game purely because of a lack of accessible resources would me a major improvement. People shouldn't need to find or access a script written by a third party to engage with common mechanics. I think the only thing that comes to mind for me personally would be having an easily accessible "cheat sheet" for some common terms in NS and some different areas/ways to get involved. Europeia itself does a great job of this, but I felt kind of lost for the first day or two and honestly I only really stumbled my way into finding enjoyment out of it. Outside of that, generally making the website more accessible to people who struggle to access certain aspects of the game purely because of a lack of accessible resources would me a major improvement. People shouldn't need to find or access a script written by a third party to engage with common mechanics
Ervald: Yeah, I was so confused what DND and R/D meant when I first started out. It doesn't stand for Dungeons and Dragons???
Maddie: I believe that it is always important for regional and site administration to take a look at what potential knock-on effects changes can have to members of their community, and to be open to community members giving their opinions in turn on how those changes may affect them. Additionally, I do think that I would like to see more full site events that do not prioritize multi-puppet activity or repetitive clicking, as those can be somewhat alienating for folks who have difficulty navigating them. I do think events like this are very important to shine a light on what folks are dealing with, and to consider those people who may not even be able to engage in our communities due to certain barriers that we cannot see ourselves.
Jade: Wait what does it stand for
Ervald: Do Not Defend
Jade: Oh that makes far more sense, thank you
Ervald: np
Maddie: To second this, I would like to see more promotion of open source scripts beyond the regions they originate from. For the longest time I was unable to access many scripts beyond breeze++ as I was under the assumption that certain scripts were locked to members, a notion I was not disabused of for far too long, and actively encouraged to believe in some places (edited)
Salem: Has there actually been any single-nation site events at all in the last several years? I'm struggling to think of any.
Maddie: You could argue the most popular nation event was single nation but that had its own bevy of issues
Ervald: Not like we have banned the use of puppets so not sure if we have had one technically?
Maddie: I think Sec Gen elections were WA limited as well???
Ervald: That's true, WA membership is limited to one nation.
Salem: Might be nice to try and encourage some site events that are WA-membership locked in the future then too. I understand a lot of the fun for a lot of players does come from spamming puppets as quickly as possible, but even without considering disabilities most players don't play in a minmaxxing way with scripts.
Maddie: I agree! I do appreciate some of the actions that have been taken the past couple years with N-Day specifically to reward single WA and small region folks, as incidental accessibility improvements
Ervald: I hate "spamming" so I would think the idea has some merits regardless, even if you don't factor in disabled players.
Salem: Kind of mimicks the real world then with how accommodations made for disabilities tend to also benefit non-disabled folks.
Jade: Yeah, I agree as well! I'm really only interested in playing with my one nation, at least for the far future, and that's just preference rather than disability and I'd imagine many others share that sentiment
Maddie: Exactly! We all benefit!
Ervald: Who doesn't need captioning if you are an American watching Peaky Blinders?
Salem: Is there anything else we think we want to touch on with NS and disabilities before wrapping up?
Jade: I don't have anything unless any of you do or anyone has any questions in q-a !
Maddie: Ditto!
Ervald: I only have one closing thought is that NS, fundamentally, is a very old website for a very old style of playing a game. Forum-based environments are not as popular as they used to be, except for Reddit. It relies on advocates like us to tell them that the website's simplicity is great for many things, but not for everything.
Jade: I definitely agree there and I think, if we raise awareness and hold events similar to this more often, many others will share and express that same sentiment and we can make a difference for the better in NS!
Salem: Yep! It is very important for players to be able to feel empowered to speak up and advocate for themselves. There's always going to be blindspots with accommodating disabilities, and it takes someone with the lived experiences to help point out those blindspots. (edited)
Maddie: I would also like to add that everyone here, just by being present or presenting, is bringing increased awareness to the disabled people in their own communities and across nationstates, and I am very thankful for you all for that. And never forget that while you may know the barriers that affect you, it is always important to keep an eye out for those who may have barriers to entry you never saw!
Salem: If anyone here now or reading this later has any tools, scripts, or extensions that you use that you think would be helpful for other players to know about, feel free to ping me in the server or directly message me about them. I'd be definitely happy to try and put together a dispatch list for increased accessibility awareness. Thank you y'all
Ervald: No problem! It was a pleasure.
Jade: Thank you for hosting Salem and thank you for letting me be part of this Ervald! This was a lovely experience, you're all great, and if anyone reading this learned even one thing then I'd call this a major success!