A Conversation about Autism
A Project Keller Article
Written by Ervald
For this article for Project Keller, I sat down with a member of our community to talk about their experience as an autistic individual and how they feel about autism's place in the disability spectrum. I spoke to Lievenland who is known as Tired on our Discord server.
Hi! Thank you for agreeing to this interview. Why don't you start off with telling us a little about yourself and why you joined Europeia?
Lievenland/Tired: Ayo! I go by Tired, since that's my default state of being. Lievenland was founded in Europeia, but everyone is so chill here, I decided to stay.
What about Europeia has made you stay here?
Lievenland/Tired: It feels like a good starting point. I don't see any of the hardcore demand for activity or frequent invasions I saw in other regions, and being LGBT, the open embrace to pride month sold me instantly. I'm always shy, but I've never felt I couldn't speak up or ask questions. 'Cozy' is a good word that comes to mind.
Transitioning to the interview topic at hand. As you know, this is part of Project Keller which is about giving greater visibility to disabled users of NationStates and you volunteered for this stating you are autistic. Autism, just like someone who is deaf or blind, is considered a disability but not everyone who has it may consider themselves disabled. For example, autistic people are protected under the American with Disabilities Act. But for those not familiar about it, what is the biggest aspect about having autism do you feel like most people do not understand?
Lievenland/Tired: A lot of us suffer from the Double-Empathy Problem. It basically means we have a much easier time communicating with others with autism than we do those who don't. (Expectedly, the reverse is also true -- people without autism have an easier time communicating with each other than with those with autism.) Because of this, there's some struggle to express empathy -- not a lack of it. We're empathetic, and sometimes hyper-empathetic, but we struggle to express that in ways that are easier for allistic (non-autistic) people to pick up on.
Because autistic people express and experience emotions differently from those without autism, that empathy can get lost in translation, so to speak. It's a good idea to ask, and be direct and literal, when trying to understand what we're feeling. (We do appreciate being literal.)
Circling back to this quote "Because autistic people express and experience emotions differently from those without autism, that empathy can get lost in translation, so to speak. It's a good idea to ask, and be direct and literal, when trying to understand what we're feeling. (We do appreciate being literal.)". I am assuming this can be a big issue with reading sarcasm? I know some folks try to add /s at the end of their sentences when possible. Folks online can be incessantly sarcastic to the point that it can be hard to tell and they like to throw out that one gif of Wesley Crusher throwing a ball titled "Joke" past someone shoulders from Star Trek if you try to engage them seriously which can feel really rude.
Lievenland/Tired: Definitely. One of the things autism is most known for is struggling with communication/social integration to some degree. Sarcasm, and sometimes even obvious jokes or rhetorical questions can completely slip by us. But it can also go the other way: Some autistic people have a 'monotone' voice, so expressing excitement or compassion can sound sarcastic. Directness that is completely harmless in our minds can come off extremely rude, like telling someone their hair looks awful. There's been times I'll say something I think is totally benign ("I'm fine,") but because of how the statement was heard or the words used or the usual way they're said, people assume something else (that I'm not fine) than what I intended to say. Idioms, analogies and subtext can go right over our head, or even be frustrating to understand. (Why is it called 'beat around the bush'? What does beating a bush have to do with avoiding a topic?)
Other setbacks a lot of us face is lapse in expression and eye contact, things that non-autistic people do naturally when speaking with others. Many have to learn and practice and even consciously monitor ourselves to make sure our behavior is 'convincing enough' to engage with others and blend in socially (masking). A lot of autistic people struggle to know when to speak up and when to wait their turn. When we express our feelings or emote during conversation, those actions can seem odd or awkward to others. Unfortunately, that means we get the 'weird' label a little too quickly, or even seen as less likeable than non-autistic people. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8992906/ No really, here's the research in 2021 on that.)
Needless to say, social interaction is more like a game of minesweeper. Online interaction can go both ways: The lack of need to work so hard to interact with others and being able to find like-minded people anywhere makes socializing much easier; but tone is even harder to read through text and some people can be very unforgiving with miscommunication. There's no real universal solution to that, since like all things it's circumstantial and every autistic person has a different 'social fluency' level, but it's why I say directness and honesty are best. Tone indicators like '/s' and /j' are a godsend in that regard. I also suggest outright telling us if something is wrong. I can't tell you how many times someone waited on me to "get it" or catch on to some social cue and I completely missed it because I didn't even know to look for it in the first place. "Don't talk about this right now" will save you from having to say "You're not supposed to talk about that" later. (I hope that example helps.)
Is there anything about having autism that impacts your experience on NationStates and to a broader extent, being on the internet?
Lievenland/Tired: I take longer to express simple concepts, since my thoughts ramble. I also tend to struggle with broad rules and have to ask for elaboration or specificity. While I'm definitely capable of learning new information, it takes longer to sink in than it does others. (And my memory is garbage.)
You talked about how it is easier to comprehend more elaborate/specific information but it can take longer to learn new information. How does that impact your experience with Europeia's laws such as our constitution, for example? We might consider our laws to be high-quality but do you find them accessible to understand, especially if you wanted to be a senator or judge?
Lievenland/Tired: Excellent question! The information's actually perfectly clear. Any struggle I have is from terminology. (For example, I didn't know what a parliament was for an embarrassingly long time.) It's moreso unfamiliarity with political science, if anything, that makes any of it difficult. That can probably be summarized as a "skill issue." Otherwise, everything's plain to read, easy to navigate, and any questions I had about how Europeia operates was answered. Everything is pretty straightforward.
Circling to what I said earlier, do you consider autism a disability?
Lievenland/Tired: Only in the sense of productivity. When I'm placed in my comfort zone, I excel at it. The problem comes up when I'm forced to juggle multiple responsibilities, shift gears suddenly, or work with a time-sensitive goal. Executive paralysis ("Oh god, what do I do?") sets in and I basically become a rock. It's really annoying, and it's cost me several good jobs. If productivity wasn't the main focus driving society's economy, this wouldn't be so bad, but alas, speed over quality means I don't perform as well. (As an aside, sensory input and overstimulation is also its own monster. High-pitched sounds, even quiet ones, are grating and I can't tune them out. Bright lights are headache-inducing, even in low settings. There's days where I can't wear most of my clothes because the fabric on my skin almost feels physically painful. Inconveniently, how much they affect me can change day to day and even hour to hour.)
So, if autism can feel like a disability when you are trying to prioritize productivity, how does that look like for your job career and passions? Are you more worried about trying to find a job that is more slower-paced, if it is aimed at a passion you have, if it is work from home, or is it more you just need a boss that understand autism? I will say in my case, I have a coworker who is completely deaf who has been working at my office for a long time so the higher-ups are very understanding of my deafness. That really helps me.
Lievenland/Tired: Yes, absolutely. And I did try a number of starting jobs, and several were in nice offices, but I never managed to hold one down. The termination cause each time was low productivity despite excellent accuracy. I always took much longer to complete training. Unfortunately, I didn't know I was autistic until after these attempts, and that doesn't help much. (A rather uncommon situation to be diagnosed 'late', so not reflective of every autistic individual's experience.) What I've found is I excel at projects where I can go my own pace but stretch my creativity. That's landed me at a job where I can sell my own creations and work when I want, at my pace. It's definitely not luxury, but it's enough for me to be happy.
Autism is incredibly different from person to person. If you had to describe your autism to someone by using the analogy of an open pick and choose food buffet, how would you?
Lievenland/Tired: I like this neo-word I learned a while ago: "Neurospicy." I'm the creative neurospice: All the colorful sprinkles of worldbuilding, art, writing, learning, introspection and self-expression. Extremely sweet, warm, and enjoyably messy.
