Executive Branch Triumphs over Senate in Power Struggle






Executive Branch Triumphs over Senate in Power Struggle

Written by Deepest House




(Europeia – February 20, 2020) – The executive branch emerged victorious in a power struggle with the Senate after a referendum initiated by Senator Drecq failed to overturn Chief of State Pichtonia’s veto of the Executive Order Scope Amendment. The referendum failed by a vote of 22 to 12 on February 19.

The power struggle began when the Senate passed the Executive Order Scope Amendment in response to former First Minister Calvin Coolidge’s executive order on January 17 requiring all elections to have closed, or hidden, results until the end of the election.

Calvin Coolidge’s executive order was met with decisive derision by many legislative stalwarts as an overreach on behalf of the first minister and executive branch.

“This seems like a clear circumvention of the regular legislative process. This [executive order] makes a permanent change to how our elections are conducted and circumvents the elected representatives in the Senate in the process,” said GraVandius in response to the executive order. “ … Had this been only to force a test in say the next [first minister] election I would be less pissed off but it makes a big permanent change to our elections that, as you admit the members of our primary lawmaking body did not see fit to pursue. That seems like an unnecessary overreach to me, simply to implement a controversial policy that you saw no other way of getting done.”

The Executive Order Scope Amendment sought to reduce the ability of the executive branch to issue wide-ranging executive orders. After passage in the Senate, Chief of State Pichtonia promptly squashed the amendment.

“It weakens the executive's ability to act in good faith to quickly address issues that may come up, as we've seen happen in the past. The emergency legislation fix is one way to address that, but I would find it difficult to leave that solely to the Senate,” the chief of state opined as he explained his veto. “It is, in my mind, an overreaction. As THE senate showed with the [executive order] that started this whole debate, our regional and legislative immune system can deal with overreaching [executive orders] very well.”

Former First Minister Maowi signed the bill prior to Pichtonia’s veto. Immediately following the veto, Senator Drecq began a petition for referendum in the Grand Hall.

“The Executive Order Scope Amendment (2020) was passed in response to an overreaching Executive Order by First Minister Calvin, which attempted to unilaterally impose the most extreme variant of a policy the First Minister supported,” Drecq explained in his petition. “I believe that this reduction in executive power is necessary and beneficial to the good government of our region.”

To trigger a referendum, the petition required the seven signatories, which it quickly achieved. Drecq, TheNationofthePeople, Lloenflys, GraVandius, Malashaan, Olde Deleware, and Xecrio were the first citizens to sign the petition and reach the threshold to trigger a 72-hour debate period. Lloenflys, Drecq, and Malashaan each serve in the Senate.

Drecq’s opening salvo in the debate made clear his preference for legislative solutions over the use of executive orders.

“The Bill restricts the Executive Order power of the First Minister, a power which is rarely used and in those situations is almost always used in ways that would be more proper to go the route of normal legislation, such as the most recent one by Calvin mandating that all elections have closed polls,” Drecq said. “ … Emergency Executive Orders simply are no longer necessary as the Senate has passed and the First Minister has signed legislation that provides a quick route for Senate-passed bills.”

HEM countered Drecq’s arguments by pointing to Europeian history and instances where the executive has made use of such orders in times of crisis.

“This is a power that, in pivotal regional moments has been crucial. Acting President Asianatic used executive orders to be able to detain Falconias when he was exposed as a spy in the region,” HEM stated. “Other less dramatic uses have included clarifying the powers of citizenship review prior to an election, making crucial treaty updates in the realm of [foreign affairs], and implementing tentpole policies that the President campaigned on (i.e. Mandatory Service, as an example).”

HEM was joined in support by Kuramia and Sopo, both of whom have strong histories with the executive, much more so than with the legislature. Meanwhile, Lloenflys weighed in heavily on Drecq’s side in support of the referendum.

“I keep hearing that the Executive may need the power to react to something, but with the exception of HEM's example above of detaining Falconias when he was exposed as a spy - something which I know absolutely nothing of and so cannot comment on - there is nothing in the above that requires the executive to be the driver of these fundamentally legislative changes,” Lloenflys added. “ … [F]rom a matter of first principles, it seems very, very strange to me to leave a loophole open for the executive not only to bypass the legislature, but to overrule a previous act of a legislature and previous executive by changing a duly passed law."

Toward the end of the debate period, Aexnidaral sided with the executive on this issue. “I agree with HEM and what many others in the following comments have said in opposition to the Amendment. While I understand, and even agree, with some of the misgivings that prompted this I feel like the language that this would force into adoption is far reaching and too broad in scope.”

Aexnidaral’s support may be somewhat surprising given his history advocating for greater legislative power and oversight over the executive branch.

Ultimately, Drecq’s arguments gained traction with just a few, as he waged a mostly solitary campaign in the debate with occasional support. While reasoned arguments were made by both sides, by the conclusion of the debate period, commentary weighed more heavily against the referendum than in support.

The final result of the referendum handed a significant victory to the executive in the back and forth power struggles between the branches of the Europeian government. In 2019, a similar power struggle took place in the aftermath of the executive split when the Senate refused to allow the first minister and chief of state to each nominate the same individual to serve in their side of the executive branch government. The executive derided such a move as legislative overreach and argued that manipulating the internal administrative structures of the executive branch was beyond the purview of the Senate. In that power struggle, Chief of State Kuramia simply appointed HEM as an executive deputy, bypassing the Senate’s oversight authority and placing HEM in the best position to serve the region.

Going forward, it remains to be seen how the latest power struggle between the branches of government will inform future relations between them. Traditionally, the branches have enjoyed cordial relations, with the occasional confrontation regarding each’s scope of power and authority. The region quickly recovered from the 2019 conflict, and time will tell what the Senate’s next steps are in response to the failure of the referendum.

 
I disagree with this framing. In the other "power struggle" you named I was on the "executive side". I advised both Kuramia and Rand as Attorney General and I continue to support the executives ability to have the broad ability to be able to do what it thinks is necessary to achieve the policies it was elected to. The Executive Order power is not necessary for that. The Executive Order power is really not necessary at all, but that doesnt mean it cant serve a purpose. But as it stands it is so powerful that it is practically useless and potentially dangerous. Not to the Senate, but to the Executive as well and the system as defined by law as a whole. At best it is a power designed to be used by one person without legislative bona fides with no quality control. When used it can break the system just through sheer legislative incapability. At worst its an easy tool which can be used by a malicious First Minister to break the system without any thought needing to be put into it.

So long story short, it is not about executive power. Its about unrestrained power in the hand of a single person.
 
Aexnidaral’s support may be somewhat surprising given his history advocating for greater legislative power and oversight over the executive branch.

On the opposite side of Drecq's previous post here, coincidentally enough lol, but I've definitely fought for the Senate's ability to stand up and fight for itself, I just feel that in this case the Senate was doing exactly that and exercising its rightful powers by vetoing the order -- so I don't see the need to completely nuke EO's because, like I said, in my opinion the system functioned exactly as it should!
 
This article is tricky for me to comment on. The tick-tock and basic journalism involved is excellent, as I'd expect from DH. I agree with Drecq though that the framing is not accurate and is a bit sensationalistic. That said, the "Executive" vs "the Senate" framing almost *never* makes sense to me. Pretty much everyone who is a leader in Euro takes leadership positions on both sides. Yes, I'm currently Senate Speaker, but I'm also a former First Minister. Yes, I like to serve in the Senate, but I also have enjoyed being the Minister of Culture and having roles in Communications and Foreign Affairs. I don't see myself as some sort of "Legisltaive Europeian" and I don't look at Pichto or Sopo and see them as "Executive Europeians". I'm also not short-sighted enough that I'm going to try to snatch away power now from an office that I think should legitimately have that power and which I might want to occupy again in the future - that sort of self-tug-of-war would just be sort of bizarre.

So I guess, again, you wrote a good article DH, but framed it in a way that in my opinion doesn't comport with what was actually happening here.

For the record I'll say here what I told you yesterday in Discord ... my original response was much more phlegmatic, but my rant at the time I realized was directed at your draft in the Written Product Gallery (the downside of being a Comms editor and seeing something early - you have a chance to cool down before you write your impassioned response!).
 
This article is tricky for me to comment on. The tick-tock and basic journalism involved is excellent, as I'd expect from DH. I agree with Drecq though that the framing is not accurate and is a bit sensationalistic. That said, the "Executive" vs "the Senate" framing almost *never* makes sense to me. Pretty much everyone who is a leader in Euro takes leadership positions on both sides. Yes, I'm currently Senate Speaker, but I'm also a former First Minister. Yes, I like to serve in the Senate, but I also have enjoyed being the Minister of Culture and having roles in Communications and Foreign Affairs. I don't see myself as some sort of "Legisltaive Europeian" and I don't look at Pichto or Sopo and see them as "Executive Europeians". I'm also not short-sighted enough that I'm going to try to snatch away power now from an office that I think should legitimately have that power and which I might want to occupy again in the future - that sort of self-tug-of-war would just be sort of bizarre.

So I guess, again, you wrote a good article DH, but framed it in a way that in my opinion doesn't comport with what was actually happening here.

For the record I'll say here what I told you yesterday in Discord ... my original response was much more phlegmatic, but my rant at the time I realized was directed at your draft in the Written Product Gallery (the downside of being a Comms editor and seeing something early - you have a chance to cool down before you write your impassioned response!).
I don't fully disagree, but I do think the article is picking up on the fact that most of the people who seem to care about this issue and agree with the Senate's EO legislation are...in the Senate.

I agree that it isn't ever as simple as "executive" vs. "legislative" but Drecq, and to a slightly lesser extent you, have really been the voices out in front here. I think that made an impression that led to this framing.
 
This article is tricky for me to comment on. The tick-tock and basic journalism involved is excellent, as I'd expect from DH. I agree with Drecq though that the framing is not accurate and is a bit sensationalistic. That said, the "Executive" vs "the Senate" framing almost *never* makes sense to me. Pretty much everyone who is a leader in Euro takes leadership positions on both sides. Yes, I'm currently Senate Speaker, but I'm also a former First Minister. Yes, I like to serve in the Senate, but I also have enjoyed being the Minister of Culture and having roles in Communications and Foreign Affairs. I don't see myself as some sort of "Legisltaive Europeian" and I don't look at Pichto or Sopo and see them as "Executive Europeians". I'm also not short-sighted enough that I'm going to try to snatch away power now from an office that I think should legitimately have that power and which I might want to occupy again in the future - that sort of self-tug-of-war would just be sort of bizarre.

So I guess, again, you wrote a good article DH, but framed it in a way that in my opinion doesn't comport with what was actually happening here.

For the record I'll say here what I told you yesterday in Discord ... my original response was much more phlegmatic, but my rant at the time I realized was directed at your draft in the Written Product Gallery (the downside of being a Comms editor and seeing something early - you have a chance to cool down before you write your impassioned response!).
I don't fully disagree, but I do think the article is picking up on the fact that most of the people who seem to care about this issue and agree with the Senate's EO legislation are...in the Senate.

I agree that it isn't ever as simple as "executive" vs. "legislative" but Drecq, and to a slightly lesser extent you, have really been the voices out in front here. I think that made an impression that led to this framing.

Perhaps I have difficulty with this framing because I know (in a way that no one else can know) that I would support this Amendment even if I was First Minister. I realize no one else can see inside my brain so there's no way for anyone else to have that insight, but knowing my thought process on this and knowing how very much it was not based on the way the article was framed, it leads to ... we'll say "cognitive dissonance."
 
If I was First Minister and I could be sure of convincing the Chief of State to sign, Id have asked the Senate to remove the veto power entirely.
 
Executive: "I did a thing."
Legislative: "Shit. We don't want you to ever do that again. Here's a law to stop you."
Executive: "Fuck your law, no. I will continue to do my thing."
Legislative: "The People want this law to stop you."
The People: "Turns out, we don't want to stop them."

If that's not a power struggle, I apparently don't understand the term.
 
Executive: "I did a thing."
Legislative: "Shit. We don't want you to ever do that again. Here's a law to stop you."
Executive: "Fuck your law, no. I will continue to do my thing."
Legislative: "The People want this law to stop you."
The People: "Turns out, we don't want to stop them."

If that's not a power struggle, I apparently don't understand the term.

You may understand the term, but you've completely missed my point. In any case, we'll see how this epic "power struggle" plays out in the Senate, where discussion ... or should that be "battle?" ... is ongoing.
 
Perception is king.
 
You've missed my point. :p
 
Part of the issue here for me is this persistent idea that the legislation was a response to Calvin's EO. It was in the sense that it reminded me to raise a topic again that I've been raising for years, but substantively, the legislation and the EO are unrelated. The issue is not and never was Calvin's EO. The issue, at least for me, is that while there is a commonly held belief that EOs can amend legislation, there are a lot of strong legal arguments that they cannot. As a matter of law, it is uncertain whether an Executive Order that amends legislation is valid or not. That is not a good situation to be in as a region. Rather than punt that decision to a future Court case where finding out that an EO long thought to be valid in fact wasn't, which could have severe consequences, it makes a lot more sense to address the matter legislatively before we get into that situation.

Ultimately, we may wish to make the policy decision that EOs should be able to modify statutes. If that's the case, I think we should amend the law to make that clear and put some protections in place. Drecq's current legislation in the Senate seems to be a good first stab at such protections. I don't agree with that policy (I think the correct approach to emergencies is to ensure the law gives the Executive appropriate leeway to address them, rather than give it the power to change the law), but it's a valid policy. However, it's entirely incorrect to frame that as the current law and the vetoed legislation as an attempt to change the law. The better reading of the current law in a vacuum already prohibits EOs from changing statutory law. The only reason to conclude otherwise (which is, admittedly, a valid reason that might prevail in court) is that there is a long held belief to the contrary (in other words, that the long held belief is sufficient to establish law by custom, as outlined here: https://forums.europeians.com/index.php?threads/re-custom-in-europeia.1260285/).
 
The issue, at least for me, is that while there is a commonly held belief that EOs can amend legislation, there are a lot of strong legal arguments that they cannot. As a matter of law, it is uncertain whether an Executive Order that amends legislation is valid or not.

To note: Executive Order 97 did not amend any legislation.
 
The issue, at least for me, is that while there is a commonly held belief that EOs can amend legislation, there are a lot of strong legal arguments that they cannot. As a matter of law, it is uncertain whether an Executive Order that amends legislation is valid or not.

To note: Executive Order 97 did not amend any legislation.
That kind of makes my point. The vetoed legislation had nothing to do with EO97 except that it reminded me that there's this long running discrepancy between what the constitution says and how it has been commonly interpreted.
 
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