Discord Verification

Seva

Cabinet
Deputy Minister
Citizen
Discord Moderator
From the discord discussion:

Right now there seem to be only 3 admins that verify new discord members, and some applications get buried in the process. Suggestions that were raised:

1) Increasing the number of people who verify discord accounts - not sure how that would work, but obviously they don't have to be admins, just some sort of supermods;

2) Clearly marking the verified threads not just by messaging in them, but also editing the title to include [VERIFIED] or something of the sort
 

Sopo

lord high chancellor emeritus
Forum Administrator
Cabinet
Honoured Citizen
Citizen
From the discord discussion:

Right now there seem to be only 3 admins that verify new discord members, and some applications get buried in the process. Suggestions that were raised:

1) Increasing the number of people who verify discord accounts - not sure how that would work, but obviously they don't have to be admins, just some sort of supermods;

2) Clearly marking the verified threads not just by messaging in them, but also editing the title to include [VERIFIED] or something of the sort

1) They do actually have to be admins because an IP check is part of the verification process.

2) Worth considering - however the people who sometimes get missed are returning folks who are using an existing thread. I suppose this would still work if we had everyone make a new thread.
 

Seva

Cabinet
Deputy Minister
Citizen
Discord Moderator
oh I see, well, then the first one should probably be singular because there aren't that many people that can (have the capabilities, experience, etc.) and want to become an admin
 

Darcness

Robot Overlord
Forum Administrator
Deputy Minister
Honoured Citizen
Citizen
Best Tech Admin
some applications get buried in the process.
A perusal through the last week or so (which I wasn't even here for) shows that each account was verified within 24 hours of being posted. This is the standard that we've previously set and continue to maintain. Can you perhaps point out the requests which are 'buried', or do you not have backing data for your claim?
 

Lethen

Nissan: electric cars for electric drivers
Forum Administrator
Supreme Chancellor
Honoured Citizen
Citizen
Yea, this is factually inaccurate
 

Seva

Cabinet
Deputy Minister
Citizen
Discord Moderator
some applications get buried in the process.
A perusal through the last week or so (which I wasn't even here for) shows that each account was verified within 24 hours of being posted. This is the standard that we've previously set and continue to maintain. Can you perhaps point out the requests which are 'buried', or do you not have backing data for your claim?
I wasn't the one who said that but apparently Kyorgia wasn't verified for like a week? They may be a returning member though
 

Lethen

Nissan: electric cars for electric drivers
Forum Administrator
Supreme Chancellor
Honoured Citizen
Citizen
some applications get buried in the process.
A perusal through the last week or so (which I wasn't even here for) shows that each account was verified within 24 hours of being posted. This is the standard that we've previously set and continue to maintain. Can you perhaps point out the requests which are 'buried', or do you not have backing data for your claim?
I wasn't the one who said that but apparently Kyorgia wasn't verified for like a week? They may be a returning member though
They were verified on May 18 2020 after applying the same day, and then re-verified on April 26 2021. For the latter though, there's no reapplication thread so they may have just pinged us to use the same thread
 

HEM

imperial senator
Forum Administrator
Jorts Connoisseur
Deputy Minister
Honoured Citizen
The admin cage has been rattled here, and I know folks have been a little spicy in response ( :p ) but I want to say this is a fair topic to raise. The two relevant questions in my mind are:

(1) Are we meeting our current internal goal of 24 hour turnaround? The answer seems to be yes, though maybe with periodic cracks that can and should be flagged
(2) Is that a good goal that makes sense? We want to make sure any goal is realistic (e.g. yes a 15 minute turnaround would be great, but not realistic) but also if the 24 hour turnaround is too long in our ultra-digital, gen z era, then that should also be addressed.

To be transparent: Hiring new admins -- particularly ones who fill gaps as it pertains to activity and being present -- is a tough endeavor. Especially knowing the types of stuff we've been exposed to over the last couple of years. It can certainly be done, but it's a much less simple process than just shoulder-tapping a few folks like we do for moderator roles//government stuff. If that is needed, we will definitely do it, but it won't be as simple as just "getting 1-2 more admins" and will likely take weeks or months.
 

Lethen

Nissan: electric cars for electric drivers
Forum Administrator
Supreme Chancellor
Honoured Citizen
Citizen
And it isn't needed.
 

UPC

His Illustriousness
Deputy Minister
Citizen
Thaecia’s Discord gained roughly 30 (maybe more) new members during this “Drew Boom 3.” We have apparently had 3. I’m on my phone right now so I can’t compare these numbers to Thaecia and Euro’s respective population/endo deltas, and I wouldn’t expect a 1:1 correlation anyways, but obviously we are missing out on a lot of players due to our Discord verification system here. I think that in an era where Discord is such a significant integration tool this is hugely concerning. Security is important and I don’t want to make light of that, but surely there is some way we can make our Discord more accessible without significant security tradeoffs?
 

HEM

imperial senator
Forum Administrator
Jorts Connoisseur
Deputy Minister
Honoured Citizen
Thaecia’s Discord gained roughly 30 (maybe more) new members during this “Drew Boom 3.” We have apparently had 3. I’m on my phone right now so I can’t compare these numbers to Thaecia and Euro’s respective population/endo deltas, and I wouldn’t expect a 1:1 correlation anyways, but obviously we are missing out on a lot of players due to our Discord verification system here. I think that in an era where Discord is such a significant integration tool this is hugely concerning. Security is important and I don’t want to make light of that, but surely there is some way we can make our Discord more accessible without significant security tradeoffs?
There's a lot to unpack here. There's a lot of differences between our regional model and Thaecia's based on my understanding, but the biggest thing here is that we need to start discussing tangible targets.

Anything lower than 12 hours is probably going to require admins scheduling shifts which isn't possible. So maybe that's the number? But as Discord servers transition more and more to automated systems of masking, any kind of wait is going to lose us the "impatient" class of folks. Will cutting things down from 12 hours to 24 hours really make a big difference?

And what kind of players are we losing through this process? If it's someone who gets bored after a few hours or isn't willing to make the forum post for verification, would they appreciate the model of community we have here? Is it even worth changing systems to accomodate these type of players?

These aren't leading questions (I promise!),, they are truly things I don't know the answer to. I am asking folks here who have posted in this thread to take a stab at giving their answers so we can think about this and respond accordingly. Cryptic posts about needing to do better aren't going to be helpful, but getting people's thoughts (even if half-baked and unsure!) on those Q's definitely are.
 

Monkey

we want YOU to be a dee gee too
Deputy Minister
Citizen
I think the lobby helper program has been very helpful in getting those threads up and advocating for those who’s threads may have slipped through. A compromise I thought of is a larger opt-in program, to maybe a very limited chat channel, just so people can start asking some questions and saying hi. Perhaps we could do things like enable slow mode, prevent images/videos/links being posted, block DMs to server members, etc. I’m not sure how Discord moderation entirely works. And maybe as a part of the verification, the mods could have access to where these threads are being posted, and simply verify that the user did make a forum account and at least tried to follow the verification steps.

I don’t know if this is something that the admin team would feel comfortable with, but I do think the best solution outside of more admins/scheduling shifts would be some sort of increased but still limited “interaction” channel.
 

Sincluda

❤️💜💙 Let's take over the world! ❤️💜💙
Deputy Minister
Citizen
Thaecia’s Discord gained roughly 30 (maybe more) new members during this “Drew Boom 3.” We have apparently had 3. I’m on my phone right now so I can’t compare these numbers to Thaecia and Euro’s respective population/endo deltas, and I wouldn’t expect a 1:1 correlation anyways, but obviously we are missing out on a lot of players due to our Discord verification system here. I think that in an era where Discord is such a significant integration tool this is hugely concerning. Security is important and I don’t want to make light of that, but surely there is some way we can make our Discord more accessible without significant security tradeoffs?
It is worth noting that Discord is a lot more integral to Thaecia’s regional structure, but I think that there has to be something more for Thaecia to get so many more members than us.
 

Darcness

Robot Overlord
Forum Administrator
Deputy Minister
Honoured Citizen
Citizen
Best Tech Admin
The biggest concern here is DMs.

There are no restrictions to how DMs are sent, only how they are received, and even then those restrictions you as a user have to set on yourself, and those restrictions apply to ALL servers. If you have 'Server members may DM me' (which is honestly the reasonable setting and also the default), ANY person that shares ANY server with you can DM you... and we (the Admin team on this server) can't control that.

If I'm a malicious user and I decide that I want to harrass you, I start sending you ugly DMs (because we both hang out on the Euro server).
Blocked? Meh, I'll just create a new account, re-join Euro, and keep blasting you with DMs. This isn't a hypothetical scenario, it really happened to one of our users. If said malicious user can't see their target, they can't send the DMs. This complete lack of access to our community is the only way to protect them from this all-too-common form of harassment.

This means that widening the pool (larger opt-in program) and baby-step communication (no images/videos, or slow mode) remove the primary protection that we have for our community. Our Welcome Lobby group was specifically chosen as a group of people who we believed would be able to appropriately handle a certain level of harassment, as they would effectively be opening themselves up to this form of attack.

And maybe as a part of the verification, the mods could have access to where these threads are being posted, and simply verify that the user did make a forum account and at least tried to follow the verification steps.
At first blush, I don't hate this idea. The information in those threads is visible to Moderators anyway. This might allow Moderators the ability to make sure that the new user is completely 'ready to go' for Admin verification.
 

Sopo

lord high chancellor emeritus
Forum Administrator
Cabinet
Honoured Citizen
Citizen
I also don't think the "lobby helpers" group has been pruned or any requests have been made to add new people replacing the inactive ones. Reevaluating that/beefing it up may help also.
 

Lethen

Nissan: electric cars for electric drivers
Forum Administrator
Supreme Chancellor
Honoured Citizen
Citizen
I also don't think the "lobby helpers" group has been pruned or any requests have been made to add new people replacing the inactive ones. Reevaluating that/beefing it up may help also.
This isn't a bad idea
 

SkyGreen

♅Emperor of Europeia⛢
Deputy Minister
Citizen
Hi
I guess I'll chime in a bit.
Just wanna say as a discord mod I could definitely take time out to atleast check if the new users did their thread properly, so I think that's a good proposal. I think just that increased interaction would probably keep a few people satisfied till they get let in.

Also wouldn't @Vlaska be a good pick for admin? As Chief Moderator one might assume he's already trustworthy, and he also lives in a non-american timezone which might decrease the maximum waiting time without forcing the admins to schedule shifts. I mean, if he's up for it, that is.
But I just wanted to mention it
 

Sopo

lord high chancellor emeritus
Forum Administrator
Cabinet
Honoured Citizen
Citizen
And maybe as a part of the verification, the mods could have access to where these threads are being posted, and simply verify that the user did make a forum account and at least tried to follow the verification steps.
At first blush, I don't hate this idea. The information in those threads is visible to Moderators anyway. This might allow Moderators the ability to make sure that the new user is completely 'ready to go' for Admin verification.
I'm fine with implementing this. And I can work with @Calvin Coolidge on updating lobby helpers.
 

Darcness

Robot Overlord
Forum Administrator
Deputy Minister
Honoured Citizen
Citizen
Best Tech Admin
Alright, the Admins will further discuss the change to the verification forum and I'll follow-up on this thread. Looks like Sopo is handling the lobby helpers.
 
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