Conflict Culture and the Courts

It is interesting to see the influence of Europeian law abroad. In many cases, the fundamentals were the same (one region had based their Criminal Code off ours) but because of a difference in culture it was used and applied far differently. It was very eye opening, but very odd. I’ve been thinking about Europeia’s judicial culture for a bit now. We don’t prosecute people for breaking laws any more, during this whole year there has only been a handful of cases. Issues are solved through the community and between individuals. In many ways, I agree with this… the law should be for when issue’s cannot be solved between the parties involved and this is likely the result of our political culture as well.

There have been events this year that would have been considered the worst offences in other regions. We had a case of possible treason and a whole batch of nastiness. Yet… none of the things that were very likely crimes led to court cases. As a community we dealt with them ourselves; the ballot box and our words were our passage of judgement. Even amongst individuals, the tone changed and I think that this can be highlighted with two cases:

1.Rougiers coming back as Kotharis
2.Willem’s trial for the abortion image

The first one, while I hate to say this… in many ways it highlighted both the end of people using the courts as a way to solve disputes and highlighted the shift towards full community enforcement. Rougiers had told Europeia he was done and would just leave, but a court case was still wanted. Due to members unfortunate RL reasons however, the case did not proceed quickly and the account lost its citizenship. It was felt that there was little incentive to go on with the case and that we should simply accept the result (him leaving).

For the second case, I think it showed the AG’s shift in belief to the current culture. In many ways, he was the justice person. If people committed a crime, he would prosecute them. He was the face of that counter-culture and over the course of 2011 that counter-culture of his would shift into the more mainstream views of Europeia today. I don’t mean to put the then AG on the spot, but I feel that he really was in the spotlight for wanting to prosecute Kotharis and Rougiers. We got behind him and then when those cases were not resolved, but rather were solved between the individuals involved I think that was really the last time we saw that belief (in prosecuting crimes and solving conflicts through the courts) where it had a real chance to become the dominant belief in Europeia. The conflict between the viewpoint that the Judiciary should be handling issues and the viewpoint that it should be handled through the community where the first has a real chance of succeeding ended.

In reality, rather than a conflict between two sides, it’s more of a ladder/slippery slope. There’s a balance between the view that conflicts should be handled by the courts and the view that the community should handle them. Over time, as a region we have felt that the courts should handle less and less conflict. It would take a truly shocking event for us to use the courts. However, even the porn spammings were handled entirely by the admin team. There was no use for courts and the longer this goes on, the more ingrained it becomes in the culture.

Now, we stand here with our courts in a difficult position. The courts as an institution have not kept up with Europeia as a whole. In my time here, they haven’t adapted to Europeia’s changing needs and because of that and their perceived non-use, we see that people aren’t interested in joining them. It is felt to be far less appealing avenue than the political route. On top of that, the position is limiting in terms of what one can do. So, the question is… now what?

Personally I feel that we either have to see changes in both the culture and the way we do things with regards to arguments and change the courts role accordingly or simply change the courts if we are make them more relevant and useful. In many ways, the courts are in a similar situation to the state of the City Council early in the year. The Mayorship had become a position for older members who didn’t have much time. A position for the semi-active and the City Council itself was in danger of becoming irrelevant.

Yet, with determined members the culture changed so that the Mayorship became a position for publically ambitious members (especially new ones). While the City Council adapted its role slightly (with friction and excitement!) it never really lost track of its first role and in fact it’s role for training members actually was strengthening. We need to see this done in the courts, a clearer vision and a shift of focus in priorities.

I believe that these priorities are and could be:

-Training new members through the JTC (perhaps changing the system so that it’s more appealing to both the teacher and the learners)
-Working with the Attorney General to develop ways to utilize the courts more (especially their role with regards legal questions, which remains in high demand).
-Law Index work (which it has done)

What do you think? I really think that this is worth a discussion as it’s been something that has not been in the public eye.

 

[Switzlanzia]

It is interesting to see the influence of Europeian law abroad. In many cases, the fundamentals were the same (one region had based their Criminal Code off ours) but because of a difference in culture it was used and applied far differently. It was very eye opening, but very odd. I’ve been thinking about Europeia’s judicial culture for a bit now. We don’t prosecute people for breaking laws any more, during this whole year there has only been a handful of cases. Issues are solved through the community and between individuals. In many ways, I agree with this… the law should be for when issue’s cannot be solved between the parties involved and this is likely the result of our political culture as well.

There have been events this year that would have been considered the worst offences in other regions. We had a case of possible treason and a whole batch of nastiness. Yet… none of the things that were very likely crimes led to court cases. As a community we dealt with them ourselves; the ballot box and our words were our passage of judgement. Even amongst individuals, the tone changed and I think that this can be highlighted with two cases:

1.Rougiers coming back as Kotharis
2.Willem’s trial for the abortion image

The first one, while I hate to say this… in many ways it highlighted both the end of people using the courts as a way to solve disputes and highlighted the shift towards full community enforcement. Rougiers had told Europeia he was done and would just leave, but a court case was still wanted. Due to members unfortunate RL reasons however, the case did not proceed quickly and the account lost its citizenship. It was felt that there was little incentive to go on with the case and that we should simply accept the result (him leaving).

For the second case, I think it showed the AG’s shift in belief to the current culture. In many ways, he was the justice person. If people committed a crime, he would prosecute them. He was the face of that counter-culture and over the course of 2011 that counter-culture of his would shift into the more mainstream views of Europeia today. I don’t mean to put the then AG on the spot, but I feel that he really was in the spotlight for wanting to prosecute Kotharis and Rougiers. We got behind him and then when those cases were not resolved, but rather were solved between the individuals involved I think that was really the last time we saw that belief (in prosecuting crimes and solving conflicts through the courts) where it had a real chance to become the dominant belief in Europeia. The conflict between the viewpoint that the Judiciary should be handling issues and the viewpoint that it should be handled through the community where the first has a real chance of succeeding ended.

In reality, rather than a conflict between two sides, it’s more of a ladder/slippery slope. There’s a balance between the view that conflicts should be handled by the courts and the view that the community should handle them. Over time, as a region we have felt that the courts should handle less and less conflict. It would take a truly shocking event for us to use the courts. However, even the porn spammings were handled entirely by the admin team. There was no use for courts and the longer this goes on, the more ingrained it becomes in the culture.

Now, we stand here with our courts in a difficult position. The courts as an institution have not kept up with Europeia as a whole. In my time here, they haven’t adapted to Europeia’s changing needs and because of that and their perceived non-use, we see that people aren’t interested in joining them. It is felt to be far less appealing avenue than the political route. On top of that, the position is limiting in terms of what one can do. So, the question is… now what?

Personally I feel that we either have to see changes in both the culture and the way we do things with regards to arguments and change the courts role accordingly or simply change the courts if we are make them more relevant and useful. In many ways, the courts are in a similar situation to the state of the City Council early in the year. The Mayorship had become a position for older members who didn’t have much time. A position for the semi-active and the City Council itself was in danger of becoming irrelevant.

Yet, with determined members the culture changed so that the Mayorship became a position for publically ambitious members (especially new ones). While the City Council adapted its role slightly (with friction and excitement!) it never really lost track of its first role and in fact it’s role for training members actually was strengthening. We need to see this done in the courts, a clearer vision and a shift of focus in priorities.

I believe that these priorities are and could be:

-Training new members through the JTC (perhaps changing the system so that it’s more appealing to both the teacher and the learners)
-Working with the Attorney General to develop ways to utilize the courts more (especially their role with regards legal questions, which remains in high demand).
-Law Index work (which it has done)

What do you think? I really think that this is worth a discussion as it’s been something that has not been in the public eye.

I absolutely and uttermost agree with you, but as a region, our laws are pointless and will not be respected or followed if we do not use these laws that we created. As a citizen, when I break the law, I expect to be punished, and if I do not get punished, then I might as well continue breaking more laws.

 

[Peaceful Llamas]

-Training new members through the JTC (perhaps changing the system so that it’s more appealing to both the teacher and the learners)

Yep

-Working with the Attorney General to develop ways to utilize the courts more (especially their role with regards legal questions, which remains in high demand).

I agree with that, but you should remember that the Senate passed a law limiting legal questions in the court.

 

[Skizzy Grey]

I don't think the three cited cases fit together in the way Rachel suggests.

RP courts are limited tools, designed to address breaches of community standards. They are not designed to address violations of RL law. Trying "Toddler" for this summer's spam attacks would have been a farce.

Kotharis/Rougiers involved an absent defendant. Trials in absentia are challenging even in the best of circumstances, and that case involved anything but the best of circumstances. The passage of time ultimately rendered the case moot.

Of the three cases cited, only the van Oranje case supports Rachel's hypothesis. (Full disclosure: I was the prosecutor.) In that case, community standards did prove to be more powerful than judicial process. I dropped the case partly for my stated reasons (in the spirit of reconciliation), but also partly because I thought the likely outcome was either an acquittal, or a misdemeanor conviction that carried a trivial penalty. I felt either result would only mute the community's scorn. Events proved me right -- van Oranje left the community soon after and has not returned. The community's sentence, in effect, was greater than the criminal sanction.

I don't mourn the decrease in court cases. Do we really want a--holes like Rougiers and Jerrymamia in our midst, just so our courts have stuff to do?

 

[r3naissanc3r]

I agree with Skizzy, a decrease in court cases can, and in Europeia's case does, reflect positive developments. To add to his points, minimum usage of the Judiciary is usually an indication of a robust and developed body of laws and governmental system.

 

[Rach]

I don't view it as negative and I also view it as a positive, but I do think that it puts the Courts in a bit of a difficult position and that it should be focusing more on what we use and can use it for.

 

[JGlenn]

-Working with the Attorney General to develop ways to utilize the courts more (especially their role with regards legal questions, which remains in high demand).

I agree with that, but you should remember that the Senate passed a law limiting legal questions in the court.

But the AG will always have an interested won't they?


Anyway, I agree with the suggestions of Rachel. If anything, I think there is a lack of training across the board here in Europeia. And people who want to be trained in different things, Law, Navy, etc, have to seek out someone to teach them. Shouldn't it be the other way around? Shouldn't we be more focused on seeking out new members who will be able to serve in the Courts, Navy, etc who are fully trained?

Also, if we were to sit here and sue and prosecute people for every small offense, we'd be doing a disservice to the region. Like when new members posted in the Senate (although that law has been changed) we asked them not to do it again, not seek out the courts. Although I think there should be somethings we go to the courts about, We don't need to go for everything.

 

[North East Somerset]

Generally I have found that a decrease in the use of the Courts directly parallels maturation of the region. That said, clearly the Courts did not rise to the challenge of the Rougiers case et al, and that was regrettable. So we have managed quite well without them so far. But, there is always a chance we will come to a situation where we do need them, in a matter of real critical importance and so they have to be able to rise to the challenge.