Sooo... Why does Arnhelm deserve this and the CA didn't?
Arnhelm: A City in Ruin
- Thread starter Calvin Coolidge
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We tried with the CA for most of a decade. Didnt work. At some point doing the same thing over and over again and getting the same result over and over again should be a sign. Thats why we are trying something different. Weve not given it a chance yet though. So maybe lets do that before shitting on it.
Also btw, its a lot harder to generate that activity to advertise when you are restricted by what you can "legislate" as the CA was to Europeian law. Its a lot easier to find something fun to legislate if you have all of RL to do it with.
Also btw, its a lot harder to generate that activity to advertise when you are restricted by what you can "legislate" as the CA was to Europeian law. Its a lot easier to find something fun to legislate if you have all of RL to do it with.
cookiespaigentland
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Getting rid of Arnhelm makes no sense. I don't know much about the CA or why it was got rid of, but it is clear that Arnhelm isn't as active as it ideally should be, but eventually it will probably pick up pace and become a lot more active. Getting rid of it after less than a year makes no sense,.
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I agree that it's definitely too early to talk about shutting Arnhelm down. At this point in time, if it's not going the way it should be going, the more productive thing to do would be to put more time and energy into getting it up and running properly, rather than trying to get it closed down.
Re: the WA thing - as deputy CoWAA I tried to get a regional collaboration on a WA proposal going. It was very tough to build up and sustain interest in it, and Arnhelm wasn't set up yet so I am sure it wasn't due to a diversion of people and resources away from the WA into Arnhelm. While I love doing WA stuff, I'm not super keen on the sort of thing Arnhelm is looking at doing, and people having my opinions in reverse is obviously to be expected. So I don't think there's a valid argument supporting the suggestion that Arnhelm in some way detracts from WAA. There's probably still value to be found in Arnhelm and if people are enjoying it, there's no reason to tear it down at this point in time.
Re: the WA thing - as deputy CoWAA I tried to get a regional collaboration on a WA proposal going. It was very tough to build up and sustain interest in it, and Arnhelm wasn't set up yet so I am sure it wasn't due to a diversion of people and resources away from the WA into Arnhelm. While I love doing WA stuff, I'm not super keen on the sort of thing Arnhelm is looking at doing, and people having my opinions in reverse is obviously to be expected. So I don't think there's a valid argument supporting the suggestion that Arnhelm in some way detracts from WAA. There's probably still value to be found in Arnhelm and if people are enjoying it, there's no reason to tear it down at this point in time.
I think that most of the arguments made in favor of Arnhelm look a lot like the arguments in favor of the CA that we used for years. If we agree that Arnhelm's activity isn't great, and that the training isn't going that well, but there is potential for improvement, then why did we shut down the CA? The CA always had potential, but that apparently wasn't enough to save it. I know better than anyone how the CA was run, and that when we had a good leader who was invested in its success that it really thrived. I say in the article that the same thing could happen with Arnhelm, but if the CA had all the same pitfalls as Arnhelm, but we're saying Arnhelm gets a pass because it's "too early" after nearly half a year, then I worry we'll be in the same spot next year as we argue whether it was worth it to ditch the CA over Arnhelm when the same problems persist unless we set some clear metrics for success, and not write off all criticism against Arnhelm as "salty" or nonsensical.
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After nearly half a year? The Charter of Arnhelm was passed a month ago. A month tomorrow.
And Arnhelm due to the wider appeal of RL legislation and not covering the same area of legislation as the Senate has more potential for growth and activity than the CA had. So saying that having problems with Arnhelm that we also had with the CA (and lets be honest here over the last month weve had 6 bills introduced in Arnhelm, the CA was rarely that active and successful) means the CA was just as likely to overcome them as Arnhelm is ludicrous.
And Arnhelm due to the wider appeal of RL legislation and not covering the same area of legislation as the Senate has more potential for growth and activity than the CA had. So saying that having problems with Arnhelm that we also had with the CA (and lets be honest here over the last month weve had 6 bills introduced in Arnhelm, the CA was rarely that active and successful) means the CA was just as likely to overcome them as Arnhelm is ludicrous.
It's possible. As with the other large and controversial things I have proposed in the Senate I would start a discussion before proposing any law on this front, and see what (if anything) can be agreed on when it comes to Arnhelm, and what the Senate could do to help. Of course, the next Senate election isn't for a while, and it's possible things will change in regards to Arnhelm, so the platform I would write today would likely be different than the one I would write in a month.
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Woah, this article has inspired some really spicy, hot takes! Maybe because the article erred slightly on the side of a hot take itself, but still!
I think Arnhelm is due some scrutiny, to be completely honest. Things have taken a while to heat up while typically with new projects, the start is the most active period. Part of this is definitely marketing, which Olde Delaware pointed out. I think to some degree someone needs to be Alan Lee in a Haven sandwich suit talking about this place to new members wherever they are.
I also think the nature of the Arnhelm "world" needs to be expanded on a little more. I had conversations with Prim about Councilors being able to post bio's going into their "background" to introduce a little bit of a roleplay element. I also think random "events" that Councilors have to respond to with legislation like Nationstates.net issues could be cool, and also something new members easily understand because of NS issues.
So I disagree with Calvin that the project is fundamentally flawed, or should be shuttered, or is even on a failure track. But I agree that after months of writing the founding document and now weeks of slow-and-steady (but mostly slow) on-ramping, we do need to apply some constructive criticism if the project is going to succeed.
I think Arnhelm is due some scrutiny, to be completely honest. Things have taken a while to heat up while typically with new projects, the start is the most active period. Part of this is definitely marketing, which Olde Delaware pointed out. I think to some degree someone needs to be Alan Lee in a Haven sandwich suit talking about this place to new members wherever they are.
I also think the nature of the Arnhelm "world" needs to be expanded on a little more. I had conversations with Prim about Councilors being able to post bio's going into their "background" to introduce a little bit of a roleplay element. I also think random "events" that Councilors have to respond to with legislation like Nationstates.net issues could be cool, and also something new members easily understand because of NS issues.
So I disagree with Calvin that the project is fundamentally flawed, or should be shuttered, or is even on a failure track. But I agree that after months of writing the founding document and now weeks of slow-and-steady (but mostly slow) on-ramping, we do need to apply some constructive criticism if the project is going to succeed.
Kari
My name is Kari, and I am a Legion of One.
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Don't be an Alan.
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There's a Genesis show coming up, see you there.
