[A Little Legalese][Opinion] This Is Not Senate Work




Opinion: This Is Not Senate Work
Defending Arnhelm's Autonomy

Written by Astrellan




Back in June 2019, I made the decision to run for my second Senate term after finishing a partial one just before. My platform went into detail on only one legislative issue -- creating the City-State of Arnhelm. In that election, I received the highest amount of votes, tying with DAX.

You see, the region itself had started a movement to create Arnhelm and even abolish the Citizens' Assembly (CA) - which, ironically was proposed in the CA. Why? My post in the Senate thread here is a good representation of my thoughts about the CA at the time. The institution had been suffering for quite some time - for years, as some people have said. So, you could imagine my surprise and shock when the idea of an Arnhelm Investigatory Committee (AIC), in its original form on Senator Darkslayer's platform, even suggested that it could resolve to "bring back the CA to replace Arnhelm."

At first, I didn't want to shoot down the idea in its entirety. Though I made my reservations about the idea clear, I did not want to suggest that the idea is meritless - after all, I could see one possible good idea that could come out of it -- the creation of a specific ground/place for legislative training. But, as I thought about the idea more over the coming days and seeing the thread proposed in the Senate just today, I came to a strong conclusion: this is not Senate work.

This committee is not something the Senate should be doing. It is clear that Arnhelm has a community which is passionate in running and playing an RP legislature - 14 Ordinances do not write themselves. There is activity. Say what you will about the times when Arnhelm was not running at full speed - frankly, it followed activity patterns relating to the region and it's completely unreasonable to expect high activity all the time, especially from a niche community. In any case, Arnhelm has often had a high level of activity. Contested elections, amendments galore, policy decisions, political parties - they are there and they have happened.

It is clear that people care about Arnhelm and it is clear that it has a good level of activity, especially for something which mainly focuses on legislation-drafting, an activity that does not appeal to all Europeians. I don't really think it's appropriate therefore for the Senate to open the committee, especially now. It's an activity for the people who care about it. If they had any issues with Arnhelm, such as activity levels, lack of legislation, etc, they are more than empowered to post about it themselves or make an internal committee in Arnhelm.

I'm not alone in these thoughts either. Former Mayor of Arnhelm Olde Delaware told me that he is "disappointed that the Senate, particularly [Calvin], continue to try to find work arounds to get rid of Arnhelm", adding that "these are people, with the exception of GraV who couldn't be bothered to join and stay active in [Arnhelm]". He questions their ability to "fairly find the facts". I held reservations about the fairness of such a committee too, especially one which considered in its first iteration the option of removing Arnhelm. There was no clear message on what standards they would use; after all, how can you fairly measure whether Arnhelm is completing its "original goal"? Laws per month? New legislators per week? It does not sound right to me.

The current Mayor of Arnhelm Forilian pointed out the fact that "Arnhelm hasn't even existed for a whole year at this point", saying "it'd be foolish to look at its pros and cons this early into its existence". He adds that with Arnhelm's current level of activity, he is not sure we "need" a "fact-finding committee" at all. I completely agree with this -- Arnhelm has, recently, been building up a bigger executive for the first time since it started. This will only accelerate as more laws are passed which require executive agencies. Now is not a good time to judge Arnhelm, if at all.

Senator and Former Mayor Prim made similar remarks in Discord today, sharing his concern over the "shifting narrative" of the AIC: "What concerns me slightly is that this committee was originally billed as determining the fate of Arnhelm -- and now it's being presented to the Senate as a "fact-finding" committee." He also retells his efforts "to keep Arnhelm from trying to entangle itself too much with Europeia", and his frustration that he now has "to fight to get Europeia to do the same". Again, my views incarnate - the first amendment I passed on the City Council Act was named the "Arnhelm Autonomy Amendment" for a reason. Arnhelm should remain as autonomous as possible - this committee does not aid that.

Former Senator Ervald told me his opinion on what this situation is like: "this committee is framing itself like a prosecutor from Ace Attorney and their detectives trying to find out the truth, when really, they are deciding if to recommend the death penalty or not." He worries that they are "obsessed with the possibility of trying to get rid of Arnhelm" and they should instead "have an open public discussion in the Senate and the Grand Hall". I too am worried if this committee will spiral from a "fact-finding committee", as it has been rebranded, to a committee concerning itself with the ultimate future of Arnhelm as per the original post - a "death panel", to put it in Ervald's words.

Ex-Senator and Vice-Chancellor Drecq was blunt in his opinion: "The Senate Committee on Arnhelm is the dumbest, most useless thing likely to happen this Senate term", a fact that wouldn't change even if "the Senate term was twice as long." He continues that "Arnhelm is active. But even if it were not, there is literally no cost involved. It costs nothing to run it. It costs nothing not to run it", finishing with saying "that the Senate decides now is the time to look at it and think about changing it, or god forbid even abolish it, is, and I can only say it again, dumb. I am amazed by it." Again, Drecq's opinion nearly mirrors my own - as he said succinctly in Discord, "If [the committee] finds its good, it does nothing. And if it finds it isnt good, it still should do nothing."

I wonder about the nature of the committee, whether it is specifically to "find the facts" or whether it's a front for something much more substantive. I wonder why it was brought up now, after a boom of activity under Mayor Forilian's term and a solid track record besides. I wonder why the Senate can't keep its hands off Arnhelm and let it keep its autonomy as intended from the first draft. And I wonder why we have to rain on the parade of a community who are clearly enjoying what they are doing.

 
Great write-up, Siph! :)

I seriously don't get why the Senate needs this "committee". If you need work, the public can give you some that ACTUALLY HAS A PURPOSE.

This "committee" is as ridiculous as Arnhelm launching a committee into the Senate. Actually, I'd quite like that. Let's do it.
 
I agree with your take here., Siph. Arnhelm is kept separate of Europeia, and yes, Prim and others have worked hard to ensure that. What in the world prompted this "investigatory" bullshit is beyond me.

I was surprised and questioned this when it came up in campaigning. I was not convinced by Darkslayer why it was needed, and I am just as surprised there are others supporting it (minus Calvin -- his involvement in this surprises no one).

Why is the Senate making up busy work? Don't you have actual work to do? Real work? Why are you promising you won't do anything with the data you collect? If you do nothing, why bother collecting it? What's the point of asking if Arnhelm is doing what it was created for...and doing nothing with it? Shooting blanks right now, Senators. Really. You could at least make this lousy thing more than just some wasteful, toothless examination of a body that's doing pretty damn good.

I doubt your motives. No one collects data for no reason, least of all people questioning the usefulness of Arnhelm.

Frankly this just pisses me off. You can do better!
 
I seriously don't get why the Senate needs this "committee". If you need work, the public can give you some that ACTUALLY HAS A PURPOSE.

This "committee" is as ridiculous as Arnhelm launching a committee into the Senate. Actually, I'd quite like that. Let's do it.
Yet the opening sentence on your senate platform says -

While I don’t think that this needs to be done, an investigation into Arnhelm to see how we can improve it may be a nice conversation.
There is an opportunity to have a "nice conversation" now. Instead, you have chosen to voice enormous opposition and refused to engage in the "nice conversation".

And on discord, you said on June 12th - "The Arnhelm Committee sounds like a good idea." (attached screenshot)

Arnhelm Committee.png


Make up your mind.
 
I seriously don't get why the Senate needs this "committee". If you need work, the public can give you some that ACTUALLY HAS A PURPOSE.

This "committee" is as ridiculous as Arnhelm launching a committee into the Senate. Actually, I'd quite like that. Let's do it.
Yet the opening sentence on your senate platform says -

While I don’t think that this needs to be done, an investigation into Arnhelm to see how we can improve it may be a nice conversation.
There is an opportunity to have a "nice conversation" now. Instead, you have chosen to voice enormous opposition and refused to engage in the "nice conversation".

And on discord, you said on June 12th - "The Arnhelm Committee sounds like a good idea." (attached screenshot)

Arnhelm Committee.png


Make up your mind.
You are seriously misquoting me here.

I said in my platform* that I would support it as an ongoing conversation in the Grand Hall. The GH doesn't actually have the power to do anything, eh?

While I don’t think that this needs to be done, an investigation into Arnhelm to see how we can improve it may be a nice conversation. However, that is how I want it to be: an ongoing, Grand Hall conversation. I do not support a full-out inquiry at this time: Arnhelm has existed for all of a few months!

Furthermore, I have said that it may be a good idea in the future. (Also see my op-ed) I explicitly stated December, IIRC.
Arnhelm hasn’t existed for even a year right now, and we’re already launching an investigation into it? Arnhelm has not had the time to prove itself, nor had the chance to become a fully-developed system. I say we give Arnhelm a few more months

Link to said op-ed: https://forums.europeians.com/index.php?threads/op-ed-arnhelm-a-mayors-perspective.10051351/

Edited for clarity, quotes and link to op-ed
 
Well, you wont find a single instance of me saying anything other than that the Committee is a dumb idea. Its either toothless or bad. Those are your options. Which means its either a waste of the Senates time or, again, worse. Arnhelm is doing good. Dont change a system that actually works well. Certainly dont get rid of it in favor of a system that didnt work.
 
If there is no intent to use whatever comes from this committee to inform a decision to abolish or keep Arnhelm, then the committee serves no purpose. The Senate has no oversight over an autonomous part of the region that was explicitly designed to be apolitical relative to regional politics.

Arnhelm will be under no obligation to implement or consider any outcomes of the committee. The only outcome the Senate can effect through this committee is the termination of Arnhelm. If that's not the intent, then the committee doesn't need to be formed.

Indeed, if the committee moves forward, especially considering the bait-and-switch rebranding of its purpose, a reasonable argument can be made that the Senate will, indeed, consider terminating Arnhelm during this inquisition.
 
I will be making a full Senate post later, but I just want to make this clear: no one, absolutely no one is proposing to abolish Arnhelm. I have never once even talked about abolishing Arnhelm, GraV openly supports Arnhelm, Darkslayer has said he does not want to abolish Arnhelm and made clear in his platform that the committee should not be about abolishing Arnhlem and even Calvin no longer wants to abolish Arnhelm. People are choosing to deliberately close their ears to this fact and are pretending that the Senate is one step away from euthanising Arnhelm. If we're going to debate this can we please use facts and not use what are at best misleading statements, and at worst blatant lies.
 
I will be making a full Senate post later, but I just want to make this clear: no one, absolutely no one is proposing to abolish Arnhelm. I have never once even talked about abolishing Arnhelm, GraV openly supports Arnhelm, Darkslayer has said he does want to abolish Arnhelm and made clear in his platform that the committee should not be about abolishing Arnhlem and even Calvin no longer wants to abolish Arnhelm. People are choosing to deliberately close their ears to this fact and are pretending that the Senate is one step away from euthanising Arnhelm. If we're going to debate this can we please use facts and not use what are at best misleading statements, and at worst blatant lies.
I'm not arguing that the Senate is trying to abolish Arnhelm. I'm arguing that the Senate has better things to do than this.
 
I will be making a full Senate post later, but I just want to make this clear: no one, absolutely no one is proposing to abolish Arnhelm. I have never once even talked about abolishing Arnhelm, GraV openly supports Arnhelm, Darkslayer has said he does want to abolish Arnhelm and made clear in his platform that the committee should not be about abolishing Arnhlem and even Calvin no longer wants to abolish Arnhelm. People are choosing to deliberately close their ears to this fact and are pretending that the Senate is one step away from euthanising Arnhelm. If we're going to debate this can we please use facts and not use what are at best misleading statements, and at worst blatant lies.

You'll understand after the bait and switch, Calvin's constant comments about abolishing Arnhelm and Darkslayer's comments above if we absolutely, for one second, don't believe you.
 
"And I hear Americans saying this nowadays, and there's a lot of it going around. They talk about a dysfunctional government because there's disagreement, and they -- and the framers would have said, yes, that's exactly the way we set it up. We wanted this to be contradicting power because the main ill that beset us, as Hamilton said in The Federalist [Papers] when he talked about a separate Senate -- he said, yes, it seems inconvenient, but inasmuch as the main ill that besets us is an excess of legislation, it won't be so bad." Scalia, Antonin. Constitutional Role of Judges. C-SPAN. United States Capitol, Washington, D.C. 5 October 2011.
While we are not America, we have three separate branches of government here in Europeia, and now that we're introducing autonomous cities and perhaps even states or whatnot in the future, they have rights too. As noted in the City Council Act 2019:
"The City-State has its own legal system, separate from that of the Republic. Neither the Charter nor any Ordinances shall be considered Europeian law." City Council Act 2019(LA1).
Arnhelm replaced the Citizens Assembly, the dear institution that I loved when I was originally in Europeia, and with that, the Senate had to make compromises, in my opinion: one of those was to let Arnhelm be Arnhelm.
If the Senate continues to try and stomp on the sovereignty of Arnhelm, they will be attempting to rewrite an entire Compromistitution with the Great People of Europeia.
 
Arnhelm is, and needs to be, autonomous. This is important because it deals with RL politics and bringing those into our RP regional politics would not be good. So practically the only possible power the Senate has, if it does not want to bring RL politics into our RP government, is to either abolish Arnhelm or let it keep doing its own thing. And if the Senate is ruling out abolishing Arnhelm then that rules out any action at all coming out of the Committee. Which officially makes it a pointless waste of the Senators individual time, the Senates time in general, and all of our time. Which brings me back to the quote of me in the Op-Ed:"The Senate Committee on Arnhelm is the dumbest, most useless thing likely to happen this Senate term.".
 
Love to see the Senate picking one point of the argument and ignoring the rest. If you are not going to abolish Arnhelm (thankfully), then, as so many people have said above, what the hell is the point of the committee?
 
Love to see the Senate picking one point of the argument and ignoring the rest. If you are not going to abolish Arnhelm (thankfully), then, as so many people have said above, what the hell is the point of the committee?

Their going to try to "Help".

The idea of actually joining Arnhelm went over the heads of many sitting Senators.
 
So practically the only possible power the Senate has, if it does not want to bring RL politics into our RP government, is to either abolish Arnhelm or let it keep doing its own thing. And if the Senate is ruling out abolishing Arnhelm then that rules out any action at all coming out of the Committee. Which officially makes it a pointless waste of the Senators individual time, the Senates time in general, and all of our time.
Calvin Coolidge said:
This data would be used to develop any legislative solutions that may be needed as well as provide direction for Arnhelm so it may improve in the areas it sees fit. The goal is this committee is not to replace Arnhelm or to abolish it. I am not proposing that and would not support a bill that seeks to do so.
I think the solution I have proposed, a split CA-Arnhelm co-existence is an option on the table that neither abolishes Arnhelm nor mixes RL politics into our RP government. I know for me personally, this data will help answer some questions about why people join Arnhelm, and if there is a niche of people who want to work in the CA, but it doesn't exist. In my positions poll, we saw that Chair of the Assembly is actually a slightly more popular position (40% would want to serve) than Mayor of Arnhelm (37% would want to serve), so I think it's worth investigating why that is. And honestly, the initial questions that this committee is seeking to answer I think help on that front.
"How active has Arnhelm been?" "Who is participating in Arnhelm?" and "What draws people to Arnhelm?"
After such data is collected, I will take a look and determine if my plans for how to improve Arnhelm and legislative training are still worth proposing.
Those have been my plans since the start of this committee's planning. I can't speak for the others, but that's what I intend to use this data for, and I think that serves a purpose. But of course, I speak only for myself, and not the committee at-large, so maybe the others have another use for the data, but that's mine.
 
I will be making a full Senate post later, but I just want to make this clear: no one, absolutely no one is proposing to abolish Arnhelm. I have never once even talked about abolishing Arnhelm, GraV openly supports Arnhelm, Darkslayer has said he does want to abolish Arnhelm and made clear in his platform that the committee should not be about abolishing Arnhlem and even Calvin no longer wants to abolish Arnhelm. People are choosing to deliberately close their ears to this fact and are pretending that the Senate is one step away from euthanising Arnhelm. If we're going to debate this can we please use facts and not use what are at best misleading statements, and at worst blatant lies.
I'm not arguing that the Senate is trying to abolish Arnhelm. I'm arguing that the Senate has better things to do than this.
The Senate can walk and run committees at the same time, in the same way I can be a Senator fulfill all of those duties and continue to investigate and publish articles through the ERI. This is the same level of effort either way so I don't see the argument that "this is a waste of time" ect. I think the data collected from observing the CA and consequently Arnhelm could be useful in establishing the best methods to get people interested in legislating.

If Arnhelm wants to go solely in a total RP direction, which is what monkey wanted (I was pulled into an absurd chat this morning consisting of suggestions of coup attempts to generate activity in the body) and consequently resigned over, then yes, I do think we should consider whether the Senate, through legislation, should tacitly be endorsing and to some degree running a complete RP body that serves no training purpose. If Monkey and others want to go full RP and have characters, coup attempts or whatever, it should be moved to the roleplay forum and not be receiving the extra support it gets by being created through Europeian law.

Also to everyone who thinks this is a thinly veiled attempt to remove Arnhelm by term end, do you also think I'm a complete gullible idiot? Why would I, who by the way has proposed multiple ordinances, is currently a deputy mayor, and has more posts in the subforum than may of the people threatening to recall me over this, would be sitting here pretending that the committee is anything less than what I'm saying it is?
 
If all the committee is looking at is maybe reconstituting the CA independent of the CC, then maybe it should be the CA Committee and not the Arnhelm Committee. And maybe more people wanted to be Chair of the Assembly than Mayor of Arnhelm because they are completely different positions with different duties and powers. Dont really know we need to "collect data" on that.
 
If all the committee is looking at is maybe reconstituting the CA independent of the CC, then maybe it should be the CA Committee and not the Arnhelm Committee. And maybe more people wanted to be Chair of the Assembly than Mayor of Arnhelm because they are completely different positions with different duties and powers. Dont really know we need to "collect data" on that.
This is a reasonable critical take, and a good faith argument. Shouldn't have to point that out to people, but I am. Thank you, Drecq. I think there's some uncertainty around this question, as even you say "maybe". This data hopefully will turn that maybe into a definitely, or definitely not.
 
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