[A Little Legalese][Opinion] This Is Not Senate Work




Opinion: This Is Not Senate Work
Defending Arnhelm's Autonomy

Written by Astrellan




Back in June 2019, I made the decision to run for my second Senate term after finishing a partial one just before. My platform went into detail on only one legislative issue -- creating the City-State of Arnhelm. In that election, I received the highest amount of votes, tying with DAX.

You see, the region itself had started a movement to create Arnhelm and even abolish the Citizens' Assembly (CA) - which, ironically was proposed in the CA. Why? My post in the Senate thread here is a good representation of my thoughts about the CA at the time. The institution had been suffering for quite some time - for years, as some people have said. So, you could imagine my surprise and shock when the idea of an Arnhelm Investigatory Committee (AIC), in its original form on Senator Darkslayer's platform, even suggested that it could resolve to "bring back the CA to replace Arnhelm."

At first, I didn't want to shoot down the idea in its entirety. Though I made my reservations about the idea clear, I did not want to suggest that the idea is meritless - after all, I could see one possible good idea that could come out of it -- the creation of a specific ground/place for legislative training. But, as I thought about the idea more over the coming days and seeing the thread proposed in the Senate just today, I came to a strong conclusion: this is not Senate work.

This committee is not something the Senate should be doing. It is clear that Arnhelm has a community which is passionate in running and playing an RP legislature - 14 Ordinances do not write themselves. There is activity. Say what you will about the times when Arnhelm was not running at full speed - frankly, it followed activity patterns relating to the region and it's completely unreasonable to expect high activity all the time, especially from a niche community. In any case, Arnhelm has often had a high level of activity. Contested elections, amendments galore, policy decisions, political parties - they are there and they have happened.

It is clear that people care about Arnhelm and it is clear that it has a good level of activity, especially for something which mainly focuses on legislation-drafting, an activity that does not appeal to all Europeians. I don't really think it's appropriate therefore for the Senate to open the committee, especially now. It's an activity for the people who care about it. If they had any issues with Arnhelm, such as activity levels, lack of legislation, etc, they are more than empowered to post about it themselves or make an internal committee in Arnhelm.

I'm not alone in these thoughts either. Former Mayor of Arnhelm Olde Delaware told me that he is "disappointed that the Senate, particularly [Calvin], continue to try to find work arounds to get rid of Arnhelm", adding that "these are people, with the exception of GraV who couldn't be bothered to join and stay active in [Arnhelm]". He questions their ability to "fairly find the facts". I held reservations about the fairness of such a committee too, especially one which considered in its first iteration the option of removing Arnhelm. There was no clear message on what standards they would use; after all, how can you fairly measure whether Arnhelm is completing its "original goal"? Laws per month? New legislators per week? It does not sound right to me.

The current Mayor of Arnhelm Forilian pointed out the fact that "Arnhelm hasn't even existed for a whole year at this point", saying "it'd be foolish to look at its pros and cons this early into its existence". He adds that with Arnhelm's current level of activity, he is not sure we "need" a "fact-finding committee" at all. I completely agree with this -- Arnhelm has, recently, been building up a bigger executive for the first time since it started. This will only accelerate as more laws are passed which require executive agencies. Now is not a good time to judge Arnhelm, if at all.

Senator and Former Mayor Prim made similar remarks in Discord today, sharing his concern over the "shifting narrative" of the AIC: "What concerns me slightly is that this committee was originally billed as determining the fate of Arnhelm -- and now it's being presented to the Senate as a "fact-finding" committee." He also retells his efforts "to keep Arnhelm from trying to entangle itself too much with Europeia", and his frustration that he now has "to fight to get Europeia to do the same". Again, my views incarnate - the first amendment I passed on the City Council Act was named the "Arnhelm Autonomy Amendment" for a reason. Arnhelm should remain as autonomous as possible - this committee does not aid that.

Former Senator Ervald told me his opinion on what this situation is like: "this committee is framing itself like a prosecutor from Ace Attorney and their detectives trying to find out the truth, when really, they are deciding if to recommend the death penalty or not." He worries that they are "obsessed with the possibility of trying to get rid of Arnhelm" and they should instead "have an open public discussion in the Senate and the Grand Hall". I too am worried if this committee will spiral from a "fact-finding committee", as it has been rebranded, to a committee concerning itself with the ultimate future of Arnhelm as per the original post - a "death panel", to put it in Ervald's words.

Ex-Senator and Vice-Chancellor Drecq was blunt in his opinion: "The Senate Committee on Arnhelm is the dumbest, most useless thing likely to happen this Senate term", a fact that wouldn't change even if "the Senate term was twice as long." He continues that "Arnhelm is active. But even if it were not, there is literally no cost involved. It costs nothing to run it. It costs nothing not to run it", finishing with saying "that the Senate decides now is the time to look at it and think about changing it, or god forbid even abolish it, is, and I can only say it again, dumb. I am amazed by it." Again, Drecq's opinion nearly mirrors my own - as he said succinctly in Discord, "If [the committee] finds its good, it does nothing. And if it finds it isnt good, it still should do nothing."

I wonder about the nature of the committee, whether it is specifically to "find the facts" or whether it's a front for something much more substantive. I wonder why it was brought up now, after a boom of activity under Mayor Forilian's term and a solid track record besides. I wonder why the Senate can't keep its hands off Arnhelm and let it keep its autonomy as intended from the first draft. And I wonder why we have to rain on the parade of a community who are clearly enjoying what they are doing.

 
So practically the only possible power the Senate has, if it does not want to bring RL politics into our RP government, is to either abolish Arnhelm or let it keep doing its own thing. And if the Senate is ruling out abolishing Arnhelm then that rules out any action at all coming out of the Committee. Which officially makes it a pointless waste of the Senators individual time, the Senates time in general, and all of our time.
Calvin Coolidge said:
This data would be used to develop any legislative solutions that may be needed as well as provide direction for Arnhelm so it may improve in the areas it sees fit. The goal is this committee is not to replace Arnhelm or to abolish it. I am not proposing that and would not support a bill that seeks to do so.
I think the solution I have proposed, a split CA-Arnhelm co-existence is an option on the table that neither abolishes Arnhelm nor mixes RL politics into our RP government. I know for me personally, this data will help answer some questions about why people join Arnhelm, and if there is a niche of people who want to work in the CA, but it doesn't exist. In my positions poll, we saw that Chair of the Assembly is actually a slightly more popular position (40% would want to serve) than Mayor of Arnhelm (37% would want to serve), so I think it's worth investigating why that is. And honestly, the initial questions that this committee is seeking to answer I think help on that front.
"How active has Arnhelm been?" "Who is participating in Arnhelm?" and "What draws people to Arnhelm?"
After such data is collected, I will take a look and determine if my plans for how to improve Arnhelm and legislative training are still worth proposing.
Those have been my plans since the start of this committee's planning. I can't speak for the others, but that's what I intend to use this data for, and I think that serves a purpose. But of course, I speak only for myself, and not the committee at-large, so maybe the others have another use for the data, but that's mine.
Can't abolish it since that's an unpopular opinion so you came up with this plan? You don't need an investigation to propose this idea. Just propose it.

I do see most Senators being awfully cagey about answering questions or focusing on arguments that make no sense. The perception looks baaaaad, guys.
 
Arnhelm is totally independent, it was designed to be totally independent. This is not something that fell off the turnip truck yesterday. The Senate knew what it was approving last year. Don't try to play this game now.
 
than may of the people threatening to recall me over this
You are literally the first person to say recall in this thread. No one is threatening to recall you. But now that you mention it, if the Senate does abolish Arnhelm it certainly should be considered. After all, if the Senate abolishes an RP that actually works and has people interested, then the People should consider "abolishing" the people who abolished that RP.

And yes, you are the Deputy Mayor and are active. But the Senate, and the Committee, arent made up just of you. Pretending that theres nothing to worry about with others just because you are pro Arnhelm is ludicrous.
 
If all the committee is looking at is maybe reconstituting the CA independent of the CC, then maybe it should be the CA Committee and not the Arnhelm Committee. And maybe more people wanted to be Chair of the Assembly than Mayor of Arnhelm because they are completely different positions with different duties and powers. Dont really know we need to "collect data" on that.
This is a reasonable critical take, and a good faith argument. Shouldn't have to point that out to people, but I am. Thank you, Drecq. I think there's some uncertainty around this question, as even you say "maybe". This data hopefully will turn that maybe into a definitely, or definitely not.
The "maybe" was sarcastic, Calvin.
 
If all the committee is looking at is maybe reconstituting the CA independent of the CC, then maybe it should be the CA Committee and not the Arnhelm Committee. And maybe more people wanted to be Chair of the Assembly than Mayor of Arnhelm because they are completely different positions with different duties and powers. Dont really know we need to "collect data" on that.
This is a reasonable critical take, and a good faith argument. Shouldn't have to point that out to people, but I am. Thank you, Drecq. I think there's some uncertainty around this question, as even you say "maybe". This data hopefully will turn that maybe into a definitely, or definitely not.
The "maybe" was sarcastic, Calvin.
Shame, as I do legitimately think that question is up for debate.
 
If all the committee is looking at is maybe reconstituting the CA independent of the CC, then maybe it should be the CA Committee and not the Arnhelm Committee. And maybe more people wanted to be Chair of the Assembly than Mayor of Arnhelm because they are completely different positions with different duties and powers. Dont really know we need to "collect data" on that.
Came here to say this, basically.

I think some of the assumptions of bad faith here are going a step too far, to be quite honest. That being said, Arnhelm is a part of the region that has faced some criticism and constant comparisons to the past CC/CA since basically day 1 so I understand some defensiveness about it being questioned.

Arnhelm is the most successful regional roleplay we've ever run, full stop. And it has been, from my vantage point, a significant community development tool and political development tool. Think of all the Councilors who held Mayor Cara accountable after their long absence? That's relevant experience and training for the main gameplay of Europeia, and people are apparently having fun while they are at it.

I would oppose any attempts to abolish Arnhelm, or hamfist some other component into it. If people want to restart conversations about a CC/CA-like body, I am open to those conversations, but would be skeptical given the last few years of the CA.
 
If Arnhelm wants to go solely in a total RP direction, which is what monkey wanted (I was pulled into an absurd chat this morning consisting of suggestions of coup attempts to generate activity in the body) and consequently resigned over, then yes, I do think we should consider whether the Senate, through legislation, should tacitly be endorsing and to some degree running a complete RP body that serves no training purpose. If Monkey and others want to go full RP and have characters, coup attempts or whatever, it should be moved to the roleplay forum and not be receiving the extra support it gets by being created through Europeian law.
I would like to point out that several councilmembers pushed back against this proposal by Monkey and because of that pushback, he eventually left Arnhelm because "joke legislation" is not part of what Arnhelm intends itself to be.

Monkey does not represent Arnhelm, thanks.
 
I will be making a full Senate post later, but I just want to make this clear: no one, absolutely no one is proposing to abolish Arnhelm. I have never once even talked about abolishing Arnhelm, GraV openly supports Arnhelm, Darkslayer has said he does want to abolish Arnhelm and made clear in his platform that the committee should not be about abolishing Arnhlem and even Calvin no longer wants to abolish Arnhelm. People are choosing to deliberately close their ears to this fact and are pretending that the Senate is one step away from euthanising Arnhelm. If we're going to debate this can we please use facts and not use what are at best misleading statements, and at worst blatant lies.
I'm not arguing that the Senate is trying to abolish Arnhelm. I'm arguing that the Senate has better things to do than this.
The Senate can walk and run committees at the same time, in the same way I can be a Senator fulfill all of those duties and continue to investigate and publish articles through the ERI. This is the same level of effort either way so I don't see the argument that "this is a waste of time" ect. I think the data collected from observing the CA and consequently Arnhelm could be useful in establishing the best methods to get people interested in legislating.

If Arnhelm wants to go solely in a total RP direction, which is what monkey wanted (I was pulled into an absurd chat this morning consisting of suggestions of coup attempts to generate activity in the body) and consequently resigned over, then yes, I do think we should consider whether the Senate, through legislation, should tacitly be endorsing and to some degree running a complete RP body that serves no training purpose. If Monkey and others want to go full RP and have characters, coup attempts or whatever, it should be moved to the roleplay forum and not be receiving the extra support it gets by being created through Europeian law.

Also to everyone who thinks this is a thinly veiled attempt to remove Arnhelm by term end, do you also think I'm a complete gullible idiot? Why would I, who by the way has proposed multiple ordinances, is currently a deputy mayor, and has more posts in the subforum than may of the people threatening to recall me over this, would be sitting here pretending that the committee is anything less than what I'm saying it is?

Yes. The Senate can go run committees and pass bills. I'm not debating that. Arnhelm is independent, however. The Senate, if they're not abolishing the City Council Act, basically doesn't have a single reason to do this. And does running the committee not take up time?? Time wasted may be little, but they add up.

I fail to see how a RP body can't be used as a training tool. Are RP laws any less valid than non-RP laws? Do they not teach us how to write legislation?

We're not talking about you. It's the other Senators who support this.
 
I would oppose any attempts to abolish Arnhelm, or hamfist some other component into it. If people want to restart conversations about a CC/CA-like body, I am open to those conversations, but would be skeptical given the last few years of the CA.
That's really what this boils down to, I think. Thank you for calling out the bad faith arguments, as well, HEM, it is appreciated.
 
If all the committee is looking at is maybe reconstituting the CA independent of the CC, then maybe it should be the CA Committee and not the Arnhelm Committee. And maybe more people wanted to be Chair of the Assembly than Mayor of Arnhelm because they are completely different positions with different duties and powers. Dont really know we need to "collect data" on that.
This is a reasonable critical take, and a good faith argument. Shouldn't have to point that out to people, but I am. Thank you, Drecq. I think there's some uncertainty around this question, as even you say "maybe". This data hopefully will turn that maybe into a definitely, or definitely not.
The "maybe" was sarcastic, Calvin.
Shame, as I do legitimately think that question is up for debate.
You think its up for debate that a position that had actual power and a position in our regional system of governance is slightly more popular to run for than a position with no power and no position in our regional system of governance? It really isnt. And it really isnt relevant in the first place. Its one position. The CA was more than the Chair and Arnhelm is more than the Mayor.
 
than may of the people threatening to recall me over this
You are literally the first person to say recall in this thread. No one is threatening to recall you. But now that you mention it, if the Senate does abolish Arnhelm it certainly should be considered. After all, if the Senate abolishes an RP that actually works and has people interested, then the People should consider "abolishing" the people who abolished that RP.

And yes, you are the Deputy Mayor and are active. But the Senate, and the Committee, arent made up just of you. Pretending that theres nothing to worry about with others just because you are pro Arnhelm is ludicrous.
I apologize for not providing context with my subtweet. In addition to the comment below, it's a question in the recently released EBC poll on this topic.
OD.png

I don't think there really is anything to worry about because 1) As you have repeatedly suggested the committee is "worthless" in that it is just gathering data, and a up down vote on it is certainly not a death knell for Arnhelm. 2) I will be leading the committee and selecting it's membership as Speaker.Thus, I will obviously not be leading a thinly veiled attempt to remove Arnhelm.
 
You think its up for debate that a position that had actual power and a position in our regional system of governance is slightly more popular to run for than a position with no power and no position in our regional system of governance?
That's not how everyone in Arnhelm views the Mayor, honestly, so while I agree it makes sense, based on what I think about the Mayor of Arnhelm position, I know it's not the only lens with which to view it. And yes, Arnhelm is more than its Mayor, which is why this is not the only thing that will be looked at.
 
than may of the people threatening to recall me over this
You are literally the first person to say recall in this thread. No one is threatening to recall you. But now that you mention it, if the Senate does abolish Arnhelm it certainly should be considered. After all, if the Senate abolishes an RP that actually works and has people interested, then the People should consider "abolishing" the people who abolished that RP.

And yes, you are the Deputy Mayor and are active. But the Senate, and the Committee, arent made up just of you. Pretending that theres nothing to worry about with others just because you are pro Arnhelm is ludicrous.
I apologize for not providing context with my subtweet. In addition to the comment below, it's a question in the recently released EBC poll on this topic.
OD.png

I don't think there really is anything to worry about because 1) As you have repeatedly suggested the committee is "worthless" in that it is just gathering data, and a up down vote on it is certainly not a death knell for Arnhelm. 2) I will be leading the committee and selecting it's membership as Speaker.Thus, I will obviously not be leading a thinly veiled attempt to remove Arnhelm.
Its worthless if it does nothing. Its harmful, as I have said as well, if it actively buds into Arnhelm business, an RP designed and intended to be autonomous for, as Ive also said, good reason, with abolishing Arnhelm being one of the worse outcomes. And the main impetus for this Committee comes from two Senators who have at times, not to distant times, wanted to consider abolishing Arnhelm. They say they no longer intent that but worst case scenario they are lying, which I will not say they are, and best case scenario they very recently changed their minds on Arnhelm and a recently changed mind can easily change back.
 
than may of the people threatening to recall me over this
You are literally the first person to say recall in this thread. No one is threatening to recall you. But now that you mention it, if the Senate does abolish Arnhelm it certainly should be considered. After all, if the Senate abolishes an RP that actually works and has people interested, then the People should consider "abolishing" the people who abolished that RP.

And yes, you are the Deputy Mayor and are active. But the Senate, and the Committee, arent made up just of you. Pretending that theres nothing to worry about with others just because you are pro Arnhelm is ludicrous.
I apologize for not providing context with my subtweet. In addition to the comment below, it's a question in the recently released EBC poll on this topic.
OD.png

I don't think there really is anything to worry about because 1) As you have repeatedly suggested the committee is "worthless" in that it is just gathering data, and a up down vote on it is certainly not a death knell for Arnhelm. 2) I will be leading the committee and selecting it's membership as Speaker.Thus, I will obviously not be leading a thinly veiled attempt to remove Arnhelm.
If this committee moves forward, I highly suggest Calvin and Darkslayer not play a role in that. But that's up to you, I will be opposing the committee regardless.
 
than may of the people threatening to recall me over this
You are literally the first person to say recall in this thread. No one is threatening to recall you. But now that you mention it, if the Senate does abolish Arnhelm it certainly should be considered. After all, if the Senate abolishes an RP that actually works and has people interested, then the People should consider "abolishing" the people who abolished that RP.

And yes, you are the Deputy Mayor and are active. But the Senate, and the Committee, arent made up just of you. Pretending that theres nothing to worry about with others just because you are pro Arnhelm is ludicrous.
I apologize for not providing context with my subtweet. In addition to the comment below, it's a question in the recently released EBC poll on this topic.
OD.png

I don't think there really is anything to worry about because 1) As you have repeatedly suggested the committee is "worthless" in that it is just gathering data, and a up down vote on it is certainly not a death knell for Arnhelm. 2) I will be leading the committee and selecting it's membership as Speaker.Thus, I will obviously not be leading a thinly veiled attempt to remove Arnhelm.
If this committee moves forward, I highly suggest Calvin and Darkslayer not play a role in that. But that's up to you, I will be opposing the committee regardless.
I second this sentiment.
 
I just wanted to note in this more public forum, as I have on the senate thread itself, that I am against the creation of this committee and will be voting against it if it comes to a vote. I align myself with the positions of Prim & Drecq that this is likely worst useless and at best harmful, and this is clearly an emotional topic that seems to have minimal potential to produce a positive change. As a firm believer in data, I believe that it should be collected with intention and purpose, and by relevant parties. I would welcome Arnhelm itself exploring it's success internally, or one of the independent media outlet collecting data.

However, I agree with HEM that if we want to, ideally after the discourse has calmed, look into a potential revival of a CA type of body, I would be open to that discussion as long as it does not involve any damage to the success Arnhelm has been experiencing.
 
than may of the people threatening to recall me over this
You are literally the first person to say recall in this thread. No one is threatening to recall you. But now that you mention it, if the Senate does abolish Arnhelm it certainly should be considered. After all, if the Senate abolishes an RP that actually works and has people interested, then the People should consider "abolishing" the people who abolished that RP.

And yes, you are the Deputy Mayor and are active. But the Senate, and the Committee, arent made up just of you. Pretending that theres nothing to worry about with others just because you are pro Arnhelm is ludicrous.
I apologize for not providing context with my subtweet. In addition to the comment below, it's a question in the recently released EBC poll on this topic.
OD.png

I don't think there really is anything to worry about because 1) As you have repeatedly suggested the committee is "worthless" in that it is just gathering data, and a up down vote on it is certainly not a death knell for Arnhelm. 2) I will be leading the committee and selecting it's membership as Speaker.Thus, I will obviously not be leading a thinly veiled attempt to remove Arnhelm.
If this committee moves forward, I highly suggest Calvin and Darkslayer not play a role in that. But that's up to you, I will be opposing the committee regardless.
I definetly recognize this, and will be taking it into consideration. In the midst of this chaos, one Senator hasn't even had the opportunity to comment and we will certainly wait to hear him out before making a decision as a body how we proceed.
 
than may of the people threatening to recall me over this
You are literally the first person to say recall in this thread. No one is threatening to recall you. But now that you mention it, if the Senate does abolish Arnhelm it certainly should be considered. After all, if the Senate abolishes an RP that actually works and has people interested, then the People should consider "abolishing" the people who abolished that RP.

And yes, you are the Deputy Mayor and are active. But the Senate, and the Committee, arent made up just of you. Pretending that theres nothing to worry about with others just because you are pro Arnhelm is ludicrous.
I apologize for not providing context with my subtweet. In addition to the comment below, it's a question in the recently released EBC poll on this topic.
OD.png

I don't think there really is anything to worry about because 1) As you have repeatedly suggested the committee is "worthless" in that it is just gathering data, and a up down vote on it is certainly not a death knell for Arnhelm. 2) I will be leading the committee and selecting it's membership as Speaker.Thus, I will obviously not be leading a thinly veiled attempt to remove Arnhelm.
If this committee moves forward, I highly suggest Calvin and Darkslayer not play a role in that. But that's up to you, I will be opposing the committee regardless.
I definetly recognize this, and will be taking it into consideration. In the midst of this chaos, one Senator hasn't even had the opportunity to comment and we will certainly wait to hear him out before making a decision as a body how we proceed.
I'm glad we're allowing Pichto to have a chance to use his voice too. I will remind the Senate that I and many others will be watching the thread closely.
 
than may of the people threatening to recall me over this
You are literally the first person to say recall in this thread. No one is threatening to recall you. But now that you mention it, if the Senate does abolish Arnhelm it certainly should be considered. After all, if the Senate abolishes an RP that actually works and has people interested, then the People should consider "abolishing" the people who abolished that RP.

And yes, you are the Deputy Mayor and are active. But the Senate, and the Committee, arent made up just of you. Pretending that theres nothing to worry about with others just because you are pro Arnhelm is ludicrous.
I apologize for not providing context with my subtweet. In addition to the comment below, it's a question in the recently released EBC poll on this topic.
OD.png

I don't think there really is anything to worry about because 1) As you have repeatedly suggested the committee is "worthless" in that it is just gathering data, and a up down vote on it is certainly not a death knell for Arnhelm. 2) I will be leading the committee and selecting it's membership as Speaker.Thus, I will obviously not be leading a thinly veiled attempt to remove Arnhelm.
If this committee moves forward, I highly suggest Calvin and Darkslayer not play a role in that. But that's up to you, I will be opposing the committee regardless.
I definetly recognize this, and will be taking it into consideration. In the midst of this chaos, one Senator hasn't even had the opportunity to comment and we will certainly wait to hear him out before making a decision as a body how we proceed.
I'm glad we're allowing Pichto to have a chance to use his voice too. I will remind the Senate that I and many others will be watching the thread closely.
Course we will. This is the hottest tea I've sipped for a while!
 
There are three arguments that I mainly wish to address here:

1.
Arnhelm is totally independent, it was designed to be totally independent.

The City Council Act, which establishes Arnhelm, is regional legislation. Senate wrote the bill and voted on it. It could now write a bill to abolish the City Council and vote on that as well. It's regional legislation and I think it's natural that Senators wish to re-evaluate legislation at times.

Now...

2.
I think it's fair for folks to disagree with the idea that Arnhelm should be abolished, very fair.

I'm confused by the argument that this committee would be a waste of time.

Now, every Senator may have a different idea of what an Arnhelm committee could achieve. While I didn't agree with the absolutism in OD's above statement (1), I think he is correct insofar that Arnhelm is not governed by our Senate. So to me personally, it was always about whether Arnhelm should be abolished or not, and that the facts we (as Senate) were trying to find were about whether or not Arnhelm was successful in its goals or otherwise. In my view, that was the best and most logical route to take with the legal framework we have surrounding the City Council.

I had committed to actively work on a/the committe, even though I found it unnecessary. I think Arnhelm has been successful, and still more active in its less active times than the CA in its final months or years. I also think that the facts would have shown that, and that's why I guaranteed that I would not vote in favour of repealing or replacing Arnhelm. But if I had the time to contribute to it, after other pressing matters, then why not? I thought it was better to join and influence the committe rather than to stand by the sidelines as others draft their conclusions about Arnhelm.

If there are strong feelings about whether this is a waste or time or not, I also think it would have been great to see these feelings raised before Senators took office. It has certainly taken a lot of our focus and attention now, maybe away from other things. And with that,

3.
It is clear that people care about Arnhelm and it is clear that it has a good level of activity, especially for something which mainly focuses on legislation-drafting, an activity that does not appeal to all Europeians. I don't really think it's appropriate therefore for the Senate to open the committee, especially now. It's an activity for the people who care about it. If they had any issues with Arnhelm, such as activity levels, lack of legislation, etc, they are more than empowered to post about it themselves or make an internal committee in Arnhelm.

With all the passion there is for Arnhelm, and all the many people who enjoy it, where were they in this Senate election?

There was no better time to discuss this, and maybe bury the idea, than that election. Where was everyone? OD, if you in fact threatened to recall everyone, where were you? You clearly had the time to evaluate and comment which FM campaign threw you under the bus or not.

-- I know you aren't the only one, OD. And you may have even had good reasons. But only last Senate did we face an issue where many Senators didn't feel understood because their very public views and legislation were suddenly in a huge controversy. I imagine they didn't feel understood, many felt burnt out. Didn't we learn anything from that? I know that many of us candidates nearly begged for engagement this election cycle.

But only Siphlygon and Kuramia and Maowi (to their credit!!) raised the issue with Darkslayer, who is the driving force of the idea.

But Peeps, SEC and Calvin supported it and got no reaction to that. Vert, Lime and Prim weren't asked where they stand. GraV, Forilian and I didn't see the need, but still would have engaged. Also no reaction. If all of you are, maybe understandably, angry at the Senate for discussing this, then I hope you also understand the legitimate puzzling behaviour this reaction is for - well, I can't speak for my colleagues, but at the very least for me.
 
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