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This is more or less how I feel about it, but introspection can be a valuable tool, and the CA discussion may have some potential.

To add on to this, this is the only side of Europeia that I have ever known, and at times it's very isolating. Being told not to trust anyone when you don't actually know anyone leaves you in this awkward position of not being a part of anything, and when you feel like you can't trust people, it...

Out of interest, and I don't mean to intrude, but do these people know they've been affected?

Sometimes it's harder to fight for/against those smaller changes than the bigger ones.

Laughing more than I should :emb:

Oh, yeah :lol: Guten Morgen! No they're not. :P

It isn't an argument, sorry, I'm just trying to have fun :( I shouldn't even be awake, it's 6 am here...

Can't vote if you're removed from Office for removing speaking rights from your trusted and respected advisors! I do hope I'm not giving anybody ideas :shifty:

Hahah! I think what I'm getting at is in a 'my word against yours' situation, a Senator in a weak Senate (no offence to the hypothetical Senators) will probably lose out to an HC, because the HC is seen as valuable and the Senator expendable. That's why the situation is dangerous, because...

Why do Senators never read the EBC comments? How are we supposed to trust that they're keeping up with the discussion?! :angry:

It's kind of annoying to be debating four points at a time :lol: EDIT: Also, a smart Senate does realise the implications, and has since voted 4-2 for this amendment :gentleman:

On the contrary, there is a counter to every point you have made. Firstly, you have taken that post slightly out of context. Our current HCs have experience and knowledge in all the areas the Senate legislates -- that's collectively. These people are obviously not the problem. Next, actually...

Or just hold Senators accountable if they don't keep up with debates? They're elected in part as representatives, in order to represent us they need to at least know what we're talking about. There's nothing wrong with calling out Senators who don't appear as if they're doing what they're...

It helped me! Actually, the more I talk about this the more my opinions on the matter are validated :emb: Whether you're aware of it or not, you are restricting the options here. How many different methods actually are there of communicating with Senators? Also, HCs can DM Senators anyway and...

While the 'against' argument eventually comes full circle, the 'for' argument doesn't. There remains reasons for its removal that persist and swell, which is why the amendment has received so much support.

This was brought up in the debate topic, and yes, this is a good example of how cyclic the against argument becomes: If HCs are given speaking rights in order to advise the Senate, but are just as able to advise the Senate from outside as they are inside, then we come to the realisation that...

Actually, that is a good question. The answer to that is generally 'so that they can advise the Senate', however that isn't what the legislature says. The legislature doesn't give a reason. I have a feeling that if a little more thought had gone in to the Act when it was first written then this...

You raise an interesting point! I'm not sure that 'to advise' and 'to influence' mean the same thing and it's important to make that distinction -- this amendment does decrease their influence but it doesn't impede their ability to advise. I am having trouble articulating this next part but I...

Their ability to advise the Senate is unaffected, this is what I said and this is not the cause of concern. It's their ability to exploit or misuse their right to speak in the Senate which is the cause of my concern. These are minor changes which will produce minor results, yet results...

To clarify, from my point of view this amendment does not affect* an HCs ability to advise the Senate, nor am I saying that HCs haven't contributed in the past, I actually agree with both of you. As a region, we are lucky to have people as committed and experienced as HCs and I want to see them...