Administrative Update: Festavo/Dionysus

[Lethen]

All -

In April 2018, the Administrative Team pre-emptively banned the players known as Plagentine and Festavo for behavior that we felt would both endanger our community and violate the Terms of Service. As with then, we don't feel it appropriate to discuss the logs that led to this decision. Recently, we were approached by Festavo with a request to review their ban, along with the admission that they are the current citizen and user known as @Dionysus .

After internal discussion and conversations with Festavo/Dionysus, the Admin Team has decided to lift the ban with two contingencies: (1) a formal public apology must be given (posted immediately below); and (2) one strike will mean an automatic ban.

While we stand by the initial decision in 2018, we'd like to emphasize that 6 years can be a long time - especially if that is the difference between being a teenager and a young adult. We are not diminishing the actions of the past by lifting this ban, but instead recognizing that a ban represents a measure to protect our community, and it is our belief at this time that such a measure is not necessary for this individual.

Signed,

The Administrative Team

 

[Lethen]

Here is @Dionysus / Festavo's public statement as well

Hello, Europeia.

Over the past couple weeks you have come to know me as Dionysus, but some of you have already become acquainted with me in years past. I used to be a citizen here under the name of Festavo. 6 years ago, I was banned for saying horrible things about a variety of groups of people, but particularly the LGBTQ+ community and victims of sexual assault. I am writing this today with a heavy heart and a sincere desire to make amends for the hurtful and ignorant things I said in the past. 6 years ago, I was a naive and stupid teenager who had a very sheltered and conservative upbringing. I had not experienced real diversity in my life and I did not understand the humanity of people from groups I was not familiar with. I didn’t truly understand that there were people behind the names on my screen. I made a lot of terrible jokes that I thought were funny and said a lot of terrible things that, at the time, I thought were edgy. What I have realized since then is that they were not edgy, they were disgusting and I feel deep remorse for them. I expressed opinions that were not only uninformed but also offensive and hurtful to individuals within the LGBTQ+ community as well as victims of sexual assault.

I want to make it unequivocally clear that I deeply regret the words I used and the impact they may have had on those around me. I do not stand by the things I said back then and I sincerely apologize to everyone who was hurt by me. I now understand the gravity of my words and the responsibility we all bear for fostering a culture of respect and acceptance. Over the years, I have grown, learned, and matured. I have met and befriended people from the very groups I insulted as an immature teen and realized our common humanity. I have come to appreciate the diversity of human experiences and understand the importance of empathy, compassion, and inclusivity.

Recognizing the pain my past words may have caused, I am committed to being an ally and striving to be a better person each day. I understand that words alone cannot undo the harm caused, but I hope that I may be forgiven for my past and allowed a second chance. I am open to any dialogue you may wish to have, as I believe that growth comes from honest conversations and a willingness to confront and learn from our mistakes. Please know that I am dedicated to being a better, more compassionate individual, and I am truly sorry for any pain my past words may have caused. Thank you for taking the time to read this.

 

[upc]

I appreciate both the admin team and Dionysus being open about this situation. I am not sure what to think, frankly. I have not been around long enough to have been present for the original ban, nor have I received or sought after details about it in the intervening time.

I do believe that people can change and I am generally confident the admin team's decisions. I will withhold judgement on this one until some more time has passed.

My one question is whether or not any players who may have been specifically affected by Festavo's words at the time of the original ban have been asked for their input or have been given a specific apology. Again, I know very little about the situation, and if none of those people play the game any longer or simply do not want an apology, this point is moot.

 

[HEM]

I appreciate both the admin team and Dionysus being open about this situation. I am not sure what to think, frankly. I have not been around long enough to have been present for the original ban, nor have I received or sought after details about it in the intervening time.

I do believe that people can change and I am generally confident the admin team's decisions. I will withhold judgement on this one until some more time has passed.

My one question is whether or not any players who may have been specifically affected by Festavo's words at the time of the original ban have been asked for their input or have been given a specific apology. Again, I know very little about the situation, and if none of those people play the game any longer or simply do not want an apology, this point is moot.

I will say, the behavior that resulted in the ban did not take place within Europeia. That's not to say that people were not affected by it — I remember being a little triggered myself at the time — but just that, to the best of my recollection, nothing was said directly about or toward members of this community.

 

[SkyGreen]

I am not sure.
While I understand the admins, the way Festavo/Dionysus approached this was wrong. If he wanted a clean slate, he should've done the right thing and approached the admins before applying for citizenship.
At the end of the day, if the ban was preemptive it hadnt really immediately affected him anyways, because he was not in Euro at the time(if i got that right) and was also obviously ready to apply as a citizen even while still banned.
I can understand wanting a second chance but I do not think we as a region should allow people to go this way about it without consequence

 

[Salem]

This was so upsetting to wake up and read.

The amount of blacklists/bans I saw while in raiding was a significant amount, and even after I left raiding I helped with the removal of one of the worst actors. I saw the hurt Festavo inflicted on those in raiding and he was one of the easiest blacklists I've seen. One of my friends who has now since quit the game used to get literal nightmares about Festavo sneaking around with an alt, and I guess in hindsight his fear was right.

NS and Europeia doesn't have to be his redemption arc. If he's worked on himself and it's truly sincere - that's great. But no one is owed a redemption arc, especially on the website where he fucked up so harshly.

However Festavo needs to answer some questions, which I've spoilered below due to violence/slur usage so trigger warning here on that -

Spoiler

Have you offered an apology to the NSer you said should be shot for being a furry?
Have you offered an apology to the transgender woman who you wanted to punch in the genitals?
Have you offered an apology to the NS LGBT server you once wanted to coordinate an attack on?
Have you offered an apology to the "trannies" you had talked about throwing into camps with alongside Kleo?

No apology he makes is sincere unless he apologized to those he wanted to inflict violence on or those he said such horrible things about

 

[upc]

Before I say anything further, I would just like to encourage the people who are using this as an opportunity to dunk on Euro because we are IC enemies to engage in a bit of self reflection. Seriously. This is a very sensitive discussion, and people within and without Europeia are more than welcome to have strong opinions. Especially because, as HEM has pointed out, the behavior that originally got Festavo banned was not conducted within Europeia itself. But this is not an appropriate conversation for your agendaposting. Act like adults for a little while so that we can discuss this (and I do think that the opinions of players outside Euro should be taken into account, for the reason brought up immediately above this). And then we can return to our petty squabbles.

I appreciate both the admin team and Dionysus being open about this situation. I am not sure what to think, frankly. I have not been around long enough to have been present for the original ban, nor have I received or sought after details about it in the intervening time.

I do believe that people can change and I am generally confident the admin team's decisions. I will withhold judgement on this one until some more time has passed.

My one question is whether or not any players who may have been specifically affected by Festavo's words at the time of the original ban have been asked for their input or have been given a specific apology. Again, I know very little about the situation, and if none of those people play the game any longer or simply do not want an apology, this point is moot.

I will say, the behavior that resulted in the ban did not take place within Europeia. That's not to say that people were not affected by it — I remember being a little triggered myself at the time — but just that, to the best of my recollection, nothing was said directly about or toward members of this community.

I don't think this is a satisfactory answer, for what it is worth. I do appreciate Dionysus' apology to Euro, but it does feel like a key component of this process is missing if the people who were directly affected by these words do not also receive an apology. Again, if they are uncomfortable with that, that is fine, but I do feel like some effort should be undertaken by Dionysus on that front.

The fact that Festavo was banned for actions performed outside of Europeia and our offsite properties is a very direct reminder that our community spans this entire game. Even if Dionysus only engages with NationStates through Europeian properties, he will frequently come into contact with representatives from a large variety of regions. So I think that an apology to the Europeian community, while a good start, is just a start nonetheless.

 

[Elio]

With the context offered by Salem above, I'm disturbed and uncomfortable that - regardless of the time that has passed since these incidents took place - this person has now lied their way back in the door and there seems to be discussion of treating it as "no harm no foul".

Whether the player reached out to the admins with a mea culpa or not, I think there should be serious discussion as to how appropriate it is to have someone who did those things back in our community (especially after lying to get in), and the message it sends especially to our LGBTQ+ people. As a Transgender person, having read the context Salem provided, I don't exactly feel safe and easy knowing this person exists in our community and has - at present - seemingly got a free pass.

To say I'm disturbed is an understatement

 

[Malashaan]

I want to provide my thoughts here. For anytime that doesn't know, I'm trans-femme. In my life outside of NationStates, I am very public about that. I speak on panels about getting transgender in the legal profession and my experiences.

One of those experiences is that I get harassed by transphobes. I get harassed a lot. One of the main things that keeps me going is the belief that exposure to transfolk living their lives and seeing our experiences presented as normal in the mainstream can lead to growth. Transphobes can realize that were wrong and be reformed. In fact, one of my best friends held transphobic views as a teenager. But they found their way out of that and have been one of my biggest cheerleaders since I fully came out.

What I saw in Festavo was someone like my friend who had held repugnant views and says terrible things, but who has grown as a person a genuinely feels shame for what they did when that were younger. That said, I might be wrong. I am always looking for redemption in transphobes because it gives me hope for a better future for people like me.

In reading the comments here, I am questioning whether it was right for me to support giving Festavo a second chance in Europeia. While I am willing to give that chance, no other trans person is obliged to extend that courtesy to him. It is a perfectly valid response to refuse to forgive the things he did. And if the people who are currently unable to forgive him after not comfortable with him here, then that is not an acceptable outcome to me. Whether in public or private, please do let me know how you feel.

The last thing I'll more is that Festavo certainly hasn't received a free pass. He is a former citizen who was banned for six years. Now the truth is out, he is being charged in-character for lying on a citizenship application. And out of character, it has been made clear to him that, even before this conversation here, he was on a very short leash and any sign of bigotry would lead to his ban being put back in place

TL,DR, I believe many transphobes can be redeemed. I believe that Festavo is someone who has changed and it's no longer a threat to our community, but it is not my place to make that decision for anyone other than myself so I want to hear from anyone who doesn't feel comfortable with the situation.

 

[Aexnidaral]

For what it's worth, I used to be very transphobic when I was younger. I think we should give people an opportunity to prove their growth. Europeia is a region of second, third, and fourth chances and many of us know that very deeply.

That said, they broke the law. I'd be fine with them returning and giving them another chance after they serve out their IC punishment (assuming one is given).

 

[Sopo]

At the end of the day, if the ban was preemptive it hadnt really immediately affected him anyways, because he was not in Euro at the time(if i got that right) and was also obviously ready to apply as a citizen even while still banned.

To clarify this point, Festavo was a member of Europeia at the time of the ban, had served in Cabinet, and had recently run for President. He was very much a part of the community. The ban was "preemptive" insofar as the behavior seen off-site had not, to our knowledge, yet occurred here (though there were more minor red flags that on their own were not banworthy).

 

[Dionysus]

This was so upsetting to wake up and read.

The amount of blacklists/bans I saw while in raiding was a significant amount, and even after I left raiding I helped with the removal of one of the worst actors. I saw the hurt Festavo inflicted on those in raiding and he was one of the easiest blacklists I've seen. One of my friends who has now since quit the game used to get literal nightmares about Festavo sneaking around with an alt, and I guess in hindsight his fear was right.

NS and Europeia doesn't have to be his redemption arc. If he's worked on himself and it's truly sincere - that's great. But no one is owed a redemption arc, especially on the website where he fucked up so harshly.

However Festavo needs to answer some questions, which I've spoilered below due to violence/slur usage so trigger warning here on that -

Spoiler

Have you offered an apology to the NSer you said should be shot for being a furry?
Have you offered an apology to the transgender woman who you wanted to punch in the genitals?
Have you offered an apology to the NS LGBT server you once wanted to coordinate an attack on?
Have you offered an apology to the "trannies" you had talked about throwing into camps with alongside Kleo?

No apology he makes is sincere unless he apologized to those he wanted to inflict violence on or those he said such horrible things about

I have considered reaching out to the specific people I insulted and hurt, but I decided against it at the time. I weighed the following factors and this is what led to my decision:

1. I do not believe that the specific people still play this game. I did a quick search around and did not find anything. Therefore, I did not know how to contact them.
2. If I dug deep enough to find a way to contact them, I considered that they most likely did not want to hear from me. Although I do ask for forgiveness, I do not expect it and I honestly did not feel that they would be receptive. I didn't want to violate their boundaries by contacting them.
3. As such time has passed, I was concerned about the re-opening of old wounds and reawakening their pain. As I have tried to move on from my past, I would hope they have found a way to move on as well. I'm sure they would rather not relive the past. Perhaps I was wrong in this assumption.

As I said in my earlier statement, I am open to dialogue. If I made a mistake by not personally contacting anyone, I apologize. If anyone I hurt would like me to contact them individually, I can certainly do that. One of my concerns in reaching out to them was doing it without their consent.

 

[Dionysus]

I want to provide my thoughts here. For anytime that doesn't know, I'm trans-femme. In my life outside of NationStates, I am very public about that. I speak on panels about getting transgender in the legal profession and my experiences.

One of those experiences is that I get harassed by transphobes. I get harassed a lot. One of the main things that keeps me going is the belief that exposure to transfolk living their lives and seeing our experiences presented as normal in the mainstream can lead to growth. Transphobes can realize that were wrong and be reformed. In fact, one of my best friends held transphobic views as a teenager. But they found their way out of that and have been one of my biggest cheerleaders since I fully came out.

What I saw in Festavo was someone like my friend who had held repugnant views and says terrible things, but who has grown as a person a genuinely feels shame for what they did when that were younger. That said, I might be wrong. I am always looking for redemption in transphobes because it gives me hope for a better future for people like me.

In reading the comments here, I am questioning whether it was right for me to support giving Festavo a second chance in Europeia. While I am willing to give that chance, no other trans person is obliged to extend that courtesy to him. It is a perfectly valid response to refuse to forgive the things he did. And if the people who are currently unable to forgive him after not comfortable with him here, then that is not an acceptable outcome to me. Whether in public or private, please do let me know how you feel.

The last thing I'll more is that Festavo certainly hasn't received a free pass. He is a former citizen who was banned for six years. Now the truth is out, he is being charged in-character for lying on a citizenship application. And out of character, it has been made clear to him that, even before this conversation here, he was on a very short leash and any sign of bigotry would lead to his ban being put back in place

TL,DR, I believe many transphobes can be redeemed. I believe that Festavo is someone who has changed and it's no longer a threat to our community, but it is not my place to make that decision for anyone other than myself so I want to hear from anyone who doesn't feel comfortable with the situation.

I appreciate this post, Malashaan. As my former running mate when I ran for President here as well as my President when I was a Minister, I am glad you voiced your perspective and I am thankful that you are open to giving me another chance.

 

[Darcness]

Just a quick note, let's try to stick to the topic of the OOC ban itself.

IC topics have been moved to this thread.

 

[Olde Delaware]

I had been framing a whole speech in my head the entire day but I feel like it can be said with a few words. People change and people do grow up and people do get out of the sheltered life and they experience the world and its sights and its sounds and its many different people of different ethnicity, genders, lives, etc. I remember when Fest got banned, his conduct then disgusted me. I think it disgusted almost everyone. He recognizes that, he isn't shying away from it and he is trying to make amends and do better and be better. If this sounds familiar its almost verbatim as I can remember the arguments when John Laurens rejoined our region.

If you never give people who wronged you a chance to show you they've changed and have made strides at righting the wrongs then how do we grow and what does that say of us? Six years isn't a short time ago, it is a long time. No one just decided to 'Let him back no harm no foul'. I am not sure why what is good for the goose is wrong for the gander all of the sudden.

 

[ICH]

I do not approve of the unbanning of Fest/Dionysus. The stuff Fest said in the past, atleast from what I have heard and seen with my own eyes, is horrible and I can understand why members of our trans-community including @Elio and @Salem are extremely uncomfortable with his inclusion in the region. I am not convinced Fest has reformed for the good and all they did was to lie on their cit application and then post an apology statement that was not even addressed to the people he had hurt. He had made vile transphobic statements along with threats of violence, which is so shocking. Are we ready to forget it all with just a sorry? Josi, a valued member of our community, left us in the aftermath of this decision. Elio and Salem have expressed their deep opposition to it. When a part of our community feels insecure and uncomfortable with this individual’s return, why are we welcoming him back? Why is it OUR duty to ensure he reforms or make amends? Why are we welcoming him back at the expense of so many of our valued community members? Our main priority should be to safeguard every member of our community from bigots. What if they hurt another one of our members and the Admin Team gets to know about it only after the damage is done? Then, won’t we all bear the responsibility for that damage, since we are allowing this individual back into the community? It is perfectly understandable that some people are uncomfortable with this person in the community.

So, I appeal to the Admins to re-consider their decision. I believe I speak for all of us when I say that you have done a great job, protecting us from bigots all throughout our times in Europeia and I am confident you will continue to do so.