Presidential Election Coverage

Calvin Coolidge · Oct 10, 2014

The panel discusses candidates releasing their Cabinet before their election.

Panel said:
[19:02] <r3n> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My2FRPA3Gf8
[19:02] <Writinglegend> Isn't it
[19:02] <r3n> here, some guidance for citizens looking to "wreck the election"
[19:03] <r3n> the visuals are more pertinent than the song itself
[19:05] <PhDre> aw that was short
[19:05] <PhDre> the ebc thing that is
[19:05] <CalvinCoolidge> The Panel discussion?
[19:05] <PhDre> yea
[19:05] <PhDre> It will be interesting to see what the cabinet is
[19:06] <PhDre> I assume Anumia will return as FA
[19:06] <Writinglegend> Mhm
[19:06] <r3n> I was saying earlier Dre
[19:07] <r3n> that I really dislike this taboo against announcing cabinets during elections that we have in euro
[19:07] <PhDre> I saw that
[19:07] <PhDre> Traditionally we dont announce cabinets.
[19:07] <r3n> how did you see it? you weren't online
[19:07] <PhDre> Voters do not like it - Drecq announced and did not win 2 elections ago
[19:07] <PhDre> The conversation was posted in the EBC subforum
[19:07] <r3n> I seriously doubt Drecq lost because of that
[19:08] <Writinglegend> Agreed
[19:08] <r3n> (ah right, I thought it hadn't yet)
[19:08] <PhDre> No, but candidates who do that do not have success.
[19:08] <Rach> It's classier when you don't do it
[19:08] <r3n> I would like to see some evidence of that causal link you're positing there
[19:08] <PhDre> So future candidates wont look at his campaign and think 'Oh, I think it is a good idea'
[19:08] <r3n> Actually I take it back
[19:09] <r3n> I misinterpreted your post
[19:09] <r3n> you didn't posit it as a causal link, just a coincidence
[19:09] <r3n> Rach, I disagree that it's classier
[19:09] <PhDre> I am not suggesting it as a link just that future candidates will not look to him as an example of how to run a campaign
[19:09] <r3n> if anything, it's classier to be honest towards voters
[19:09] <r3n> about how you are going to run the region if elected
[19:09] <r3n> (Dre, I've already taken my post back)
[19:10] <PhDre> I would suggest that the con is that you end up having more of a debate about who is the best for the position (which should be a senate issue) rather than WHAT are the best policies
[19:10] <PhDre> (yep, just clarifying)
[19:10] <PhDre> I can see positives to it as well, however
[19:10] <r3n> and the cabinet you are using is going to be a huge part of how you're going to run the region
[19:10] <r3n> even more important than the agenda itself, in my opinion
[19:10] <r3n> Dre, best policies need someone to implement them
[19:11] <PhDre> True, I agree that there are some candidates I would not vote for based on the cabinet they offered
[19:11] <PhDre> Some had ridiculously poor cabinets and claimed a mandate.
[19:11] <r3n> I can have the best FA policies ever and appoint Rifty as my Minister
[19:11] <PhDre> At the same time the election should not be a conversation about who is the best minister for the position. In my opinion at least
[19:12] <r3n> I don't think it's a discussion of that
[19:12] <PhDre> Though I can see an argument
[19:12] <r3n> it's a discussion of who has the best team
[19:12] <r3n> which *is* something the election should be about
[19:12] <PhDre> I think that in a competitive election
[19:12] <r3n> and best team ftr does not just mean individual ministerial positions
[19:13] <r3n> but also how well the announced ministers and the president can collaborate
[19:13] <r3n> in a region of the size of europeia, it is entirely likely both presidential candidates will have the same person as minister for a given position
[19:13] <r3n> (in a scenario of two candidates, that is)
[19:13] <PhDre> I think that is probable
[19:13] <r3n> in which case, it is important to get a feeling of who this minister will work better with
[19:13] <PhDre> There is usually a maximum of 3 'good' or reasonable in terms of approval from senate
[19:14] <PhDre> for eac ministry
[19:14] <PhDre> Well I will not choose a president based off of who Anumia or WL work best with
[19:14] <Writinglegend> :O
[19:14] <PhDre> If they choose to serve as a minister, I expect them to do their best regarldess. I do think that there is an argument that natural friendships or what not can enhance a team
[19:15] <PhDre> But a good leader can / should seek to get the most out of his team regardless
[19:15] <r3n> I am not sure what this has to do with how well a president can work with their team
[19:15] <r3n> It is a perfectly valid question to ask
[19:15] <r3n> a president may think they will be able to work greatly with someone
[19:15] <r3n> or the minister may think the same
[19:16] <PhDre> But the public would disagree?
[19:16] <r3n> but an informed voter who knows both people can think otherwise
[19:16] <r3n> we are a small community, we all have adequate information to make such judgments
[19:16] <PhDre> I cant say I would trust an informed voter over the two people who are actually going to have this working relationship
[19:17] <PhDre> I would suggest that when candidates benefit from revealing their cabinet they should (in that, it would make up for other aspects of their campaign)
[19:17] <r3n> Dre, it's the same kind of judgment as judging whether a president who promises to do their best will actually do so
[19:18] <r3n> If we trust an informed voter to make the latter judgment, then we can trust them to make the former as well
[19:18] <r3n> but I need to go now
[19:19] <r3n> as my dinner has arrived almost half an hour ago
[19:19] <PhDre> Ceers
[19:19] <PhDre> cheers*

Calvin Coolidge · Oct 10, 2014

The polls have been open for about an hour and a half, and the vote is now tied, with six apiece for Malashaan and Abstain. Whether this is a lack of support for the candidate, or just an honest attempt to let Abstain finally win one, is not clear. One thing that is clear, this term will be starting with a very low energy. It'll be up to the new President to get us excited again, and hopefully in a hurry.

Malashaan · Oct 10, 2014

I just dislike how the GAP is the answer for everything FA
[18:05] <CalvinCoolidge> Agreed, FA seems very GAP heavy, with little else.

I just want to address this because I don't think it accurately reflects what I put in the platform at all. I'm moving GAP into FA because the hard work there is done. We have the data on potential partner regions to approach as many or as few as we feel is appropriate based on priority of resource allocation for a number of terms to come.

My FA focus is the exact opposite of what is presented here. I want to increase the amount of interaction our diplomats have with our major allies and expand our contacts in medium size regions - this is a traditional Ambassador type role, for which the recent overhaul to the Europeian Foreign Service has already established the base. This is intended to work hand in hand with the other focus of my FA plans - increasing our visibility in the wider NS world. These two focuses collectively enable us to better present our case for the values we believe in. The independence convention is a great first step for us and, assuming the document produced there is strong (and I have no doubt it will be), it sets the stage for us to cement our position as a leading voice for independent foreign policy.

This all leads back to the main theme of my campaign, infrastructure. For the kind of ambitious projects that we are starting to visualize, we need to make effective use of our resources and we need to attract and retain more people who are willing and able to put time into FA work.

Rach · Oct 11, 2014

If only I could get money each time a Presidential candidate thinks that changing the ambassador system and using vague terms equals a credible foreign affairs strategy. For some reason, when I think of foreign affairs I think about how Deng reached out to obtain allies against the Soviet Union or how he worked to ensure that South East Asian countries would not be close to Vietnam. I don't think about how ambassadors should be organized, which while somewhat admirable should only constitute a small part of Foreign Affairs because it is not a strategy. A strategy is what Europeia is planning to do externally. I'm not a fan of an entire strategy devoted to navel gazing and it does worry me Mal that you seem unable to grasp basic foreign affair concepts.

Europeia really started on the trek of Independence in 2011; so I disagree with the assertion that we are only cementing our position within it now...

PhDre · Oct 11, 2014

I see a few moments in Mala's response which suggest that the strategy at hand is not navel gazing - unless you consider "expand[ing] our contacts in medium size regions" and "increasing our visibility in the wider NS world" to be navel gazing.

Rach · Oct 11, 2014

That would fall under using vague terms. Idk, I'm just not impressed but that's just me

Malashaan · Oct 11, 2014

Your observation that we have been on the Independence path since 2011 shows exactly what my point is. We've been doing this a long time, we know who the major players are and we have established relationships with them. It seems like you want me to adopt a foreign policy based on forging alliances with major players, but that wouldn't make sense in our current position - we already have those relationships. I'm talking about building on what we have already done and taking our foreign policy beyond the already substantial success it has had.

Everything you are saying would make sense if we didn't already have a strong identity and set of existing relationships, but that's not the situation the next President is stepping into. This criticism seems to be attacking me for acknowledging that, if elected, I'll be coming into a strong FA situation. It may not be good politics, but I'm not going to propose a strategy that isn't appropriate to our current situation for the sake of good optics.

That's not to day we can't improve and there are not dangers to avoid. We must act quickly to build on the interest that the Independence Convention has created. This means more interaction with our allies, both by our ambassadors and through state visits and festivals. Further, by expanding our ally base further into medium size regions we can increase the strength and depth of the coalition of independent regions. Quick and frequent articles from the International paper is also essential to take advanced of the convention. All this is a lot of work, and needs to be done quickly and efficiently, which is exactly why getting the infrastructure in place is important - if done right, it ensures that we don't drop the ball, not so much in the next term, but for many terms to come - it's all about stability and longevity.

Kraketopia · Oct 11, 2014

I think Mal's strategy is not only feasible, but the desirable path to take. Europeia is already in a very good spot in terms of FA, it would be foolish to campaign on making large strides in other directions. Mal is being criticized about being vague on FA, but it's almost impossible to not be vague on FA. FA is a field that changes while you're in office, and is hard to plan around besides in vague, general directions. There is also the problem of disclosing too much too soon when it comes to FA and campaigns. If when Mal talks about reaching out to medium regions he has certain regions in mind, it would be foolish to explicitly mention them while campaigning, for obvious FA reasons. Talking about infrastructure is one of the few things you can campaign on in detail regarding FA, since it's exclusively determined by Europeian factors and not international ones, and you really don't risk anything by talking about it in public.

modernsin · Oct 11, 2014

God, everything about this election sucks.

Any more IRC meetups planned?

PhDre · Oct 11, 2014

I want a debate.

Calvin Coolidge · Oct 11, 2014

The polls have been open for seventeen hours now, and the vote count is nineteen for Malashaan and ten for Abstain. It would appear Malashaan has beaten Abstain, and the numbers suggest this is highly probable. Should the current trend continue, Malashaan will have this election won very soon.

Rach · Oct 11, 2014

Malashaan said:
Your observation that we have been on the Independence path since 2011 shows exactly what my point is. We've been doing this a long time, we know who the major players are and we have established relationships with them. It seems like you want me to adopt a foreign policy based on forging alliances with major players, but that wouldn't make sense in our current position - we already have those relationships. I'm talking about building on what we have already done and taking our foreign policy beyond the already substantial success it has had.

Everything you are saying would make sense if we didn't already have a strong identity and set of existing relationships, but that's not the situation the next President is stepping into. This criticism seems to be attacking me for acknowledging that, if elected, I'll be coming into a strong FA situation. It may not be good politics, but I'm not going to propose a strategy that isn't appropriate to our current situation for the sake of good optics.

That's not to day we can't improve and there are not dangers to avoid. We must act quickly to build on the interest that the Independence Convention has created. This means more interaction with our allies, both by our ambassadors and through state visits and festivals. Further, by expanding our ally base further into medium size regions we can increase the strength and depth of the coalition of independent regions. Quick and frequent articles from the International paper is also essential to take advanced of the convention. All this is a lot of work, and needs to be done quickly and efficiently, which is exactly why getting the infrastructure in place is important - if done right, it ensures that we don't drop the ball, not so much in the next term, but for many terms to come - it's all about stability and longevity.

I've heard this before and it nearly always devolves into stagnation. But then again, what do I know?

Calvin Coolidge · Oct 11, 2014

Seventeen and a half hours in, the EBC is ready to project that Malashaan will take the Goldenblock. He has twenty-one votes to Abstain's ten, and with only six and a half hours to go, it seems to be an insurmountable lead. Our panel weighs in on this decison.

Panel said:
[12:03] <Rach> yeah
[12:04] <PhDre> nailbiter

Calvin Coolidge · Oct 11, 2014

The panel discusses the single candidate nature of this election.

Panel said:
[12:06] <Rach> I think Mal would have been pretty beatable with an opponent
[12:07] <PhDre> Depends on the opponent
[12:07] <PhDre> I think that he would have faired very well against the most probable candidates.
[12:08] <CalvinCoolidge> Yes, it is a very strong team, but all are beatable.
[12:09] <CalvinCoolidge> I am a little sad we never got to have a debate. Those are always telling.
[12:09] <Rach> yeah, voters didn't get a good deal this election
[12:10] <CalvinCoolidge> I was also hoping this might revive our private media, which has been very dead lately.
[12:11] <CalvinCoolidge> But an election like this won't do it.
[12:11] <CalvinCoolidge> Abstain has picked up another vote.
[12:14] <Rach> what about legendofpies media??
[12:14] <Rach> and mine
[12:14] <CalvinCoolidge> If there's no Panda's Pen, there's no private media.
[12:15] <CalvinCoolidge> Wait, that means I've collapsed the entire system. D:
[12:18] <Rach> lol
[12:19] <CalvinCoolidge> Do you Senators know there is a bill up for vote, by the way?
[12:21] == ProfessionallyAway has changed nick to ProfessorHenn
[12:24] <CalvinCoolidge> Even Anumia has voted, guys. Just saying.
[12:29] == Notolecta has joined #EBC
[12:31] == mode/#EBC [+v Notolecta] by CalvinCoolidge
[12:31] <CalvinCoolidge> This panel just a little Notty.
[12:32] <CalvinCoolidge> *just got
[12:33] <ProfessorHenn> Welcome.
[12:33] <Notolecta> Where is 35% of our population that is voting and participating in polls. Gap has about that much opposition, that's about how much of the region isn't completely confindent in malashaan on external issues, it's how much of the vote is going to abstain, and about that or a little more rated kraken less than 5, but we don't see anyone talking about these things.
[12:36] <Notolecta> Everything in Krakens final speech is saying how he did a good job, only rach and apollo really said anything about mala's policies in his campaign thread, and there hasn't really been anyone talking about scrapping the gap either. Are people just trying to be polite and nice during the election, so they are lying, or have the 35% gone silent because they have given up on the election?
[12:37] <Notolecta> I wonder if there would have been more noise if they had a candiate to rally behind.
[12:37] <CalvinCoolidge> That's what I was going to say.
[12:37] <Notolecta> I also at this point have to wonder whether mala could have run an opposed election
[12:37] <CalvinCoolidge> It is tough to get riled up without someone to take charge.
[12:37] <Notolecta> 35% is willing to vote against him without an alternative.
[12:38] <Notolecta> won not run*
[12:39] <Rach> Although some of that can just be voting against him based on saying they didn't support only one candidate running
[12:39] <Notolecta> I don't know rach
[12:40] <Notolecta> Mala isn't as infalible as he's been made out to be by some.
[12:40] <Notolecta> His platform has wholes, just as all platforms do.
[12:40] <Notolecta> He has nearly no expeirnce in external matters.
[12:40] <PhDre> I would think that the abstain vote is particularly popular because of what Rach suggests
[12:41] <PhDre> THere is nothing exciting about a single horse race
[12:41] <CalvinCoolidge> Do holes in a platform really mean he is a worse candidate, though?
[12:41] <Notolecta> And most importantly, the gap hasn't been as successful as people make it out to be.
[12:41] <Notolecta> I'm not saying he is, I'm saying he has been over-hyped by some.
[12:06] <Rach> I think Mal would have been pretty beatable with an opponent
[12:07] <PhDre> Depends on the opponent
[12:07] <PhDre> I think that he would have faired very well against the most probable candidates.
[12:08] <CalvinCoolidge> Yes, it is a very strong team, but all are beatable.
[12:09] <CalvinCoolidge> I am a little sad we never got to have a debate. Those are always telling.
[12:09] <Rach> yeah, voters didn't get a good deal this election
[12:10] <CalvinCoolidge> I was also hoping this might revive our private media, which has been very dead lately.
[12:11] <CalvinCoolidge> But an election like this won't do it.
[12:11] <CalvinCoolidge> Abstain has picked up another vote.
[12:14] <Rach> what about legendofpies media??
[12:14] <Rach> and mine
[12:14] <CalvinCoolidge> If there's no Panda's Pen, there's no private media.
[12:15] <CalvinCoolidge> Wait, that means I've collapsed the entire system. D:
[12:18] <Rach> lol
[12:19] <CalvinCoolidge> Do you Senators know there is a bill up for vote, by the way?
[12:21] == ProfessionallyAway has changed nick to ProfessorHenn
[12:24] <CalvinCoolidge> Even Anumia has voted, guys. Just saying.
[12:29] == Notolecta [webchat@pool-108-15-89-20.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #EBC
[12:31] == mode/#EBC [+v Notolecta] by CalvinCoolidge
[12:31] <CalvinCoolidge> This panel just a little Notty.
[12:32] <CalvinCoolidge> *just got
[12:33] <ProfessorHenn> Welcome.
[12:33] <Notolecta> Where is 35% of our population that is voting and participating in polls. Gap has about that much opposition, that's about how much of the region isn't completely confindent in malashaan on external issues, it's how much of the vote is going to abstain, and about that or a little more rated kraken less than 5, but we don't see anyone talking about these things.
[12:36] <Notolecta> Everything in Krakens final speech is saying how he did a good job, only rach and apollo really said anything about mala's policies in his campaign thread, and there hasn't really been anyone talking about scrapping the gap either. Are people just trying to be polite and nice during the election, so they are lying, or have the 35% gone silent because they have given up on the election?
[12:37] <Notolecta> I wonder if there would have been more noise if they had a candiate to rally behind.
[12:37] <CalvinCoolidge> That's what I was going to say.
[12:37] <Notolecta> I also at this point have to wonder whether mala could have run an opposed election
[12:37] <CalvinCoolidge> It is tough to get riled up without someone to take charge.
[12:37] <Notolecta> 35% is willing to vote against him without an alternative.
[12:38] <Notolecta> won not run*
[12:39] <Rach> Although some of that can just be voting against him based on saying they didn't support only one candidate running
[12:39] <Notolecta> I don't know rach
[12:40] <Notolecta> Mala isn't as infalible as he's been made out to be by some.
[12:40] <Notolecta> His platform has wholes, just as all platforms do.
[12:40] <Notolecta> He has nearly no expeirnce in external matters.
[12:40] <PhDre> I would think that the abstain vote is particularly popular because of what Rach suggests
[12:41] <PhDre> THere is nothing exciting about a single horse race
[12:41] <CalvinCoolidge> Do holes in a platform really mean he is a worse candidate, though?
[12:41] <Notolecta> And most importantly, the gap hasn't been as successful as people make it out to be.
[12:41] <Notolecta> I'm not saying he is, I'm saying he has been over-hyped by some.
[12:42] <PhDre> I think it's also easy to have rose tinted glasses at a time like this - there are definitely more idela situations
[12:42] <PhDre> All of which would result in a tighter race, some of which would have Mala losing. So I can see the backlash to the initial hype being a problem
[12:43] <Notolecta> Mala is an incredibly hard worker and so is mouse, but no one really deserves the level of unexaminded praise this ticket is getting. If me and rach hadn't questioned mala his thread would have likely been nothing but people saying that they support his ticket.
[12:43] <PhDre> I dont consider it to be questioning to say I hear what you're saying and I disagree so I must not know anything
[12:43] <PhDre> I mean I guess that's a sort of questioning.
[12:44] <Notolecta> Crtitiqing then.
[12:44] <PhDre> But regardless, obviously it would be a better election w/ at least another solid candidate.
[12:44] <PhDre> I definitely am curious as to where are the people who think Kraken did 'just ok' in the polls but are silent now.

Calvin Coolidge · Oct 11, 2014

The panel continues their conversation.

Panel said:
[12:45] <Notolecta> Also I actually questioned him, I didn't even nessarrily disagree with all the policies I grilled him on, but we don't gain anything by not discussing.
[12:45] <Notolecta> I'll admit I think kraken did nothing
[12:45] <PhDre> I think that goes back to discussion on our political culture, just that we are not in a healthy state where opposition viewpoints are welcome. Look at Kraken's response to the Senate committees.
[12:45] <Notolecta> I've said it in the past.
[12:45] <CalvinCoolidge> I wish we had committees, still.
[12:45] <PhDre> The Administration was definitely not willing to enage at all with the Senate Committees.
[12:46] <CalvinCoolidge> Yeah, and that's a real bummer.
[12:46] <Notolecta> He benefits from good ministers leading strong ministries, but personally did little or nothing.
[12:46] <Notolecta> When problems arose it took him weeks to replace inactive ministers.
[12:46] <PhDre> I think its not easy to be an active President to the point where people know that youre active
[12:46] <PhDre> This is true
[12:47] <PhDre> I agree he pulled the trigger very late multiple times on rearranging Ministries. Particularly with GAP as it seemed and still is at a crucial point. And there was no real sense of urgency
[12:47] <Notolecta> Well balancing involvement is key to being president
[12:47] <CalvinCoolidge> I know Kraken probably did do a lot that we won't ever know about,
[12:47] <Notolecta> or to leading at all.
[12:47] <PhDre> Calvin, I recall someone running on a Transparency platform.
[12:48] <CalvinCoolidge> Communication is key.
[12:48] <PhDre> I agree that his legacy will be less shiny than it seems from his final speech. I wonder how PLX's term will be seen.
[12:48] <Notolecta> If you are too involved you risk micromanaghing, if you are uninvolved ministries fail or suceed soley on their ministers.
[12:48] <Notolecta> I'm actually planning to write an article on the issue of balancing involvement(plug)
[12:48] <PhDre> Thats something I think mouse can really excel at - the VP position is this awkward dont upstage the Presidency role, and I think Mouse can do a good job there
[12:49] <Notolecta> VP should be a workhorse, president a leader.

PhDre · Oct 11, 2014

Calvin I need to teach you how to do regular expressions so you can easily edit this crap

Calvin Coolidge · Oct 11, 2014

I'm all ears. :gentleman:

Malashaan · Oct 11, 2014

For the record, I wish someone had run against me. I agree totally that the region would have been much better served by a real debate. I disagree somewhat that I don't have FA experience, but I understand why people in Euro would reach that conclusion. Since joining the region I've focused on internal matters mostly - the vast majority of my FA experience comes from other regions. Based on the current polling, all I can say is I look forward to showing people who have concerns that the plans I intend to implement will move us forward.

Finally, with regard to committees, I'm more than happy to engage with them. I was expecting a call from a committee regarding GAP this term, but it never came. I hope to operate the executive in a way where the Senate does not feel the need to ask questions in committee - bit if they ever feel it is necessary, I encourage them to do so.

Presidential Election Coverage

Calvin Coolidge

Spellcaster

Calvin Coolidge

Spellcaster

Malashaan

Rach

Banned

PhDre

Rach

Banned

Malashaan

Kraketopia

modernsin

New member

PhDre

Calvin Coolidge

Spellcaster

Rach

Banned

Calvin Coolidge

Spellcaster

Calvin Coolidge

Spellcaster

Calvin Coolidge

Spellcaster

PhDre

Calvin Coolidge

Spellcaster

Malashaan